Leica Q2 DNG processed with Photolab 5

[Haldw777]

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Hi,

What setting am I missing (if at all)?  Ladies and gents, for better or for worse, I like processing my photos using Photolab.  I’ve used Lightroom, Capture 1, Skylum and various others over the years, but the noise reduction won me over years ago for other camera brands (and still necessarily used for many of my non-Q2 subjects).  But here’s the problem that somehow I’m missing with the Q2.

I love my Q2.  It’s a ‘kin marvellous camera.  I toyed with purchasing the Q2M, but could never shake the flexibility of colour.  I prefer to work in DNG for the greater flexibility later, but have set the camera to take DNG+JPG simultaneously.  When I elect to take a monochrome photo, of course the JPG is presented in monochrome.  When I elect to take a zoomed photo, of course the JPG is the zoomed result.  But what about DNG?  Different programmes treat the DNG differently, and that’s what I’m failing to get right.

Adobe Bridge correctly acknowledges any crop factor for any DNG taken using Q2’s digital zoom (I can see a crop symbol overlaying the thumbnail).  It even displays the thumbnail as monochrome if a monochrome setting was used.  But DXO Photolab 5 has me defeated.  Is it sidecar, xmp or some other choice of setting I’m missing?

At first, Photolab tantalisingly shows a monochrome thumbnail for any DNG captured as monochrome (which of course matches the neighbouring JPG) - so it’s certainly capable of reading the original metadata output from the Q2 - but the moment I click on the thumbnail, it reverts to the base DNG colour and full frame (immediately hiding any creative thought I put into the original capture).  

Now I’m well aware I can use the JPG as a guide to recreate whatever I’ve lost, but that’s hardly an efficient workflow.  I’m also well aware that the whole point of DNG is that it serves as a digital negative - and I’ll no doubt be enjoying the ability to develop old photos from them 20 years from now.  I can certainly export to NiK Silver Efex to experiment with far more monochrome options than the Q2 provides; but I’d just love to start in DxO with the originally envisaged monochrome/cropped image when I click on the thumbnail) and only revert to the base colour, full frame file if I choose to.  If Bridge can offer that, why doesn’t DxO?  So what am I doing wrong?  What DxO settings am I missing?

If anyone has had the same challenges - and hopefully found a solution, please share.

Best regards.
 

[dpitt]

Some programs use the JPG preview embedded inside your DNG file to display your DNG. This file was created at time of capture and is probably exactly the same as the one you saved on the side. The first change you make to the DNG the app will recalculate the JPG used to show your DNG (any program will always use JPG previews to show your DNG on schreen). Since your DNG info is always full format and color, it switches fo full format and color. Not sure what LR does, but how do you revert to FF in LR when you chose to shoot in cropped mode? I would see that as a drawback.

The purpose of DNG is to capture anything the camera sees without alteration. That is why it is called RAW. I know LR adds some sharpening before even showing the DNG. Artefacts can be seen if you pixel peep. Some other programs will not do that. Maybe LR will add other things too, I do not know that. I would rather start from scratch on every RAW i.s.o. having the PP decide to add things I might not need/want to have.

[jaapv]

What version of Photolab are you using? You need 3.2.0. 

[SrMi]

On 3/27/2023 at 8:24 PM, Haldw777 said:

Hi,

What setting am I missing (if at all)?  Ladies and gents, for better or for worse, I like processing my photos using Photolab.  I’ve used Lightroom, Capture 1, Skylum and various others over the years, but the noise reduction won me over years ago for other camera brands (and still necessarily used for many of my non-Q2 subjects).  But here’s the problem that somehow I’m missing with the Q2.

I love my Q2.  It’s a ‘kin marvellous camera.  I toyed with purchasing the Q2M, but could never shake the flexibility of colour.  I prefer to work in DNG for the greater flexibility later, but have set the camera to take DNG+JPG simultaneously.  When I elect to take a monochrome photo, of course the JPG is presented in monochrome.  When I elect to take a zoomed photo, of course the JPG is the zoomed result.  But what about DNG?  Different programmes treat the DNG differently, and that’s what I’m failing to get right.

Adobe Bridge correctly acknowledges any crop factor for any DNG taken using Q2’s digital zoom (I can see a crop symbol overlaying the thumbnail).  It even displays the thumbnail as monochrome if a monochrome setting was used.  But DXO Photolab 5 has me defeated.  Is it sidecar, xmp or some other choice of setting I’m missing?

At first, Photolab tantalisingly shows a monochrome thumbnail for any DNG captured as monochrome (which of course matches the neighbouring JPG) - so it’s certainly capable of reading the original metadata output from the Q2 - but the moment I click on the thumbnail, it reverts to the base DNG colour and full frame (immediately hiding any creative thought I put into the original capture).  

Now I’m well aware I can use the JPG as a guide to recreate whatever I’ve lost, but that’s hardly an efficient workflow.  I’m also well aware that the whole point of DNG is that it serves as a digital negative - and I’ll no doubt be enjoying the ability to develop old photos from them 20 years from now.  I can certainly export to NiK Silver Efex to experiment with far more monochrome options than the Q2 provides; but I’d just love to start in DxO with the originally envisaged monochrome/cropped image when I click on the thumbnail) and only revert to the base colour, full frame file if I choose to.  If Bridge can offer that, why doesn’t DxO?  So what am I doing wrong?  What DxO settings am I missing?

If anyone has had the same challenges - and hopefully found a solution, please share.

Best regards.
 

The metadata for cropping and perspective correction (SL2/M11) is not recognized by most post-processors. AFAIK, only Adobe recognizes and applies the cropping instructions stored in the Leica DNGs.

 

[SrMi]

23 hours ago, jaapv said:

What version of Photolab are you using? You need 3.2.0. 

OP is using Photolab 5 and complaining about crop modes not being recognized by DxO. AFAIK, no DxO tool recognizes Q2's crop modes.

[jaapv]

DXO claims Q2 compatibility  from 3.2.0 onwards. Maybe his Photolab 5 just needs an update.

[Haldw777]

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Hi all,

Thanks for all the answers.  My Photolab is the very latest - it updates every time an update is issued.  Q2 support isn't the issue, but rather DXO's integration and user interface.  Not a complaint, but rather the root cause of my wanting to know if I am missing a setting/preference that would make my life easier.  Old enough and dumb enough not to complain about software these days.

Quote

Some programs use the JPG preview embedded inside your DNG file to display your DNG.

Thanks dpitt for reminding me how the DNG thumbnail is created and updated.  That makes sense and explains the reason for my false hope.  If I take a monochrome shot, just as others have said, I develop the DNG from scratch and play with the a monochrome output (usually via Nik) to recreate my original vision.  However, from a work process POV, it would be handy if the monochrome vision at time of capture could still be recognised (allowing me to choose to revert to the DNG's full colour only if I wish rather than imposing it the moment I click on the thumbnail).  The only alternative is to keep a JPG reference shot to remind me of the capture settings and crop. 

So that's really my question now - is there a way to prevent DXO from automatically overwriting the thumbnail?

Alternatively, I realise the use of the Q2's monochrome settings is just like the film simulation modes in lots of other brands.  They are produced as JPGs, and the DNG is always untouched.  But even the ability to save an uncompressed TIFF alongside the DNG would offer users the choices over lossy JPG.  It's not as if memory cards are overly limited in space these days.

 

Edited March 29, 2023 by Haldw777

[SrMi]

2 minutes ago, Haldw777 said:

Hi all,

Thanks for all the answers.  My Photolab is the very latest - it updates every time an update is issued.  Q2 support isn't the issue, but rather quality of DXO's integration.

Thanks dpitt for reminding me how the DNG thumbnail is created and updated.  That makes sense and explains the reason for my false hope.  If I take a monochrome shot, just as others have said, I develop the DNG from scratch and play with the a monochrome output (usually via Nik) to recreate my original vision.  However, from a work process POV, it would be handy if the monochrome vision at time of capture could still be recognised (allowing me to choose to revert to the DNG's full colour only if I wish rather than imposing it the moment I click on the thumbnail).  The only alternative is to keep a JPG reference shot to remind me of the capture settings and crop. 

So that's really my question now - is there a way to prevent DXO from automatically overwriting the thumbnail?

Alternatively, I realise the use of the Q2's monochrome settings is just like the film simulation modes in lots of other brands.  They are produced as JPGs, and the DNG is always untouched.  But even the ability to save an uncompressed TIFF alongside the DNG would offer users the choices over lossy JPG.  It's not as if memory cards are overly limited in space these days.

 

You can file a feature request with DxO asking them to support Leica's embedded instructions. I do not understand why tool makers (DxO, C1, etc.) are reluctant to support all of Leica's features.