Small 35mm with pleasing bokeh for busy backgrounds?

[SonnarGauss]

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50 minutes ago, Babylonia said:

Thanks for sharing.   Quite different character this MS Optics 36mm f1.3
I can imagine it is a joy playing around with so many lenses and their characteristics.
For every opportunity a special lens type for choice.

My most light weight and tiny lens, for playing around is an  M42 Industar 50mm II - f3.5
Weight of the lens alone 68 gram     Weight of a M42 to L-mount adapter is more ---> 97 gram   😀

This MS Optics Apollon 36mm f1.3 isn't far off at 80g.

My even more expressive Apoqualia 28mm f1.7 comes in at 65g.

By contrast, the similarly spec'd Voigtlander 35mm f1.4 is 262g, and the Voigtlander 28mm f2.0 is 242g.

Because of it's size, the industar is a fun lens to use on a tilt adapter adapted to mirrorless 

 

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[venom]

On 3/19/2023 at 9:11 PM, JoshuaRothman said:

leaves and tree branches that seem to surround my home in all directions and appear in the background of every family photo I take.

This is the effect of wide angle lenses. Choose a 50mm if you want distant pleasing blur. The wider you go the less smooth bokeh in the distance will be. 

[fotografr]

I think the lens the OP already has is a great performer. I bought one as a cheap knock around, carry everywhere and it's become my favorite 35. Small, cheap and good all at the same time.

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[venom]

I don’t worry much about bokeh since I hardly ever shoot anything below f2.8, and that’s very rare. Usually I’m at f5.6-f8. The more things in focus the better. 

I chose the Nokton f1.4 v2 instead because it has a less modern look. It’s more classic. The Ultrons have too much contrast for my taste. 

Edited November 30, 2023 by venom

[fotografr]

1 hour ago, venom said:

I don’t worry much about bokeh since I hardly ever shoot anything below f2.8, and that’s very rare. Usually I’m at f5.6-f8. The more things in focus the better. 

 

But that's you, not the OP. If you read his original question, it was about bokeh and which 35mm lenses are best with OOF areas. 

[venom]

1 hour ago, fotografr said:

But that's you, not the OP. If you read his original question, it was about bokeh and which 35mm lenses are best with OOF areas. 

That’s right. It’s the reason why the paragraph started with “I”. I responded to him on post 63.

He can always get one that is the most optically perfected which is the APO. 

Edited December 1, 2023 by venom

[venom]

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3 hours ago, fotografr said:

I think the lens the OP already has is a great performer.

 

But that’s you, not the OP. If you read his original question, he started this thread because he thinks it is not a great performer with bokeh. 

[lct]

4 hours ago, fotografr said:

I think the lens the OP already has is a great performer. I bought one as a cheap knock around, carry everywhere and it's become my favorite 35. Small, cheap and good all at the same time.

You mean the Ultron 35/2 asph i guess. It can have some smooth bokeh with gaussian blur on close ups (1st pic at f/2) but also some more busy bokeh at farther subject distances (2nd pic at f/2). Here on digital CL but it is the same on FF cameras. Great little lens anyway, my favorite 35/2 on digital CL due to its overall sharpness, smaller size and 0.5m MFD. For softer OoF results at medium distance, my favorite 35/2 is the Summicron asph v1 at f/2. At f/2.8 and on, the KOB (Summicron 35/2 v4) deserves its reputation but gaussian blur is not no be expected with this lens (last pic at f/2).

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[Babylonia]

vor 20 Stunden schrieb lct:

You mean the Ultron 35/2 asph i guess. It can have some smooth bokeh with gaussian blur on close ups (1st pic at f/2)
but also some more busy bokeh at farther subject distances (2nd pic at f/2). Here on digital CL but it is the same on FF cameras......

In general, what I see from images at www resources,  all CV type  "Ultron"  designed / named lenses,
and my own experience having an older Nikon mount Voigtländer Ultron 40mm F2 SL lens, seems to have the same busy bokeh at farther subject distances.
Nice and small mechanical build lens, this Ultron 40mm (for Nikon DSL FF camera, a "pancake lens"),
but never liked this busy bokeh characteristic from that lens, for general photography, and wider open aperture settings.

Bought it times ago, especially for school "group portraits". Not too wide-angled as e.g. 35mm (beginning of stretching heads at the edges),
not to tight angled (50mm).  Where it worked fine, because it was always stopped down to about F8.

Edited December 1, 2023 by Babylonia

[lct]

1 hour ago, Babylonia said:

all CV type  "Ultron"  designed / named lenses,
and my own experience having an older Nikon mount Voigtländer Ultron 40mm F2 SL lens, seems to have the same busy bokeh at farther subject distances.

Difficult to generalise but the VM Ultron 28/2 asph seems to be affected too. Here at f/2 on digital CL.

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[venom]

44 minutes ago, lct said:

Difficult to generalise but the VM Ultron 28/2 asph seems to be affected too. Here at f/2 on digital CL.

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That’s key. It’s the thing with wide angle lenses. Once the subject is further away the bokeh starts getting crispy. 

[Babylonia]

Not necessary „the thing with wide angle lenses.”  (Not counting normal DOF calculations sharp versus not sharp).
But it is about the way of rendering in soft areas, which are not sharp anyway, what has to do with soft or busy bokeh.

It greatly depends to optical design and choices to be made.

A basic starting point / approach, by type from which one starts a lens design.
Hence lens designations that manufacturers use, such as Nokton - Ultron - Lanthar - Tessar - Summicron, etc.
These names are not given randomly, but relate to some basic optical formula used.
(Even though you don't see much of the basic premise, as there are so many other variables
that expand the basic design with several other lens elements).

Versus:
Limitations related to characteristics of sensor-stack thickness, maximum possible angle of light rays hitting the sensor at borders / corners.

Versus:
Manual focus or auto-focus (e.g. using small inner lens groups moving for fast focusing ---> making optical design far more complex).

Versus:
Dimensions and weight of a lens.
In general, a very important issue for "Leica M users", to keep lenses as small and light as possible.

Between all these variables in properties, different solutions are arrived.  One design produces a softer creamy bokeh than another design.
But other properties may become more negative, such as bigger size and more weight.  So there is always a mix of all these characteristics.

Then there are also differences in personal preference, what one person likes or another.  So a lot choices to make.
Nice that several community members show examples of various lenses.  Thank you.

Edited December 2, 2023 by Babylonia