Pitting Leica M6 TTL - how much less?

[nitroplait]

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I have a friend who wants to sell an M6 TTL with a severely pitted top plate.

It is only cosmetic so he thinks it’s irrelevant, but I am telling him that the devil is in the details. 
How much less would you pay for a M6 ttl with a pitted top plate surface (35%) versus an un-pitted one with normal wear?

 

[Huss]

It's irrelevant to him because he wants to sell it.

I wouldn't buy it.  It would bug the heck out of me every time I picked it up, knowing I could have bought a nice clean one.

And then if you ever decide to sell it?  Good luck unless you heavily discount it.

[nitroplait]

21 minutes ago, Huss said:

It's irrelevant to him because he wants to sell it.

I wouldn't buy it.  It would bug the heck out of me every time I picked it up, knowing I could have bought a nice clean one.

And then if you ever decide to sell it?  Good luck unless you heavily discount it.

So how heavy a discount (%) is needed to make it an attractive deal ？？

[jaapv]

First find somebody willing to buy it - and then negotiate.  

[Steve Ricoh]

Junk value. 

[Steve Ricoh]

35 minutes ago, nitroplait said:

So how heavy a discount (%) is needed to make it an attractive deal ？？

It’s irrelevant as I would not purchase. But if I was asked to guess I’d say 90% reduction.

[newtoleica]

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Given there is no shortage of un-pitted M6 TTLs there are two answers to how much reduction.

1. The equivalent cost of a replacement or refurbished top plate... (no idea)

2. A big enough reduction to find a buyer willing to put up with it who would not normally be able to afford the camera... need to test the market but my guess would be something in the 30-50% range. Are you that buyer? If not walk away.

[Huss]

It's like buying a rusty car, when for a bit more you can buy that same car not rusty.  And the seller saying it's not a big deal.

[Huss]

1 hour ago, nitroplait said:

So how heavy a discount (%) is needed to make it an attractive deal ？？

The question to you is why would you want this camera, if there are so many others w/o pitting?

Then, for you, decide how much you would pay for a good camera.  And from there decide how much cheaper it has to be for you to consider the pitted one.

For ME - I wouldn't even consider it.  Because there are nice M6s out there w/o this issue.

[250swb]

I guess it all depends on how much you anticipate measuring your top plate against somebody else’s top plate in the future. If you are into cosmetics and not the functions of the camera pitting is obviously a big problem, but buy it for a good discount price and wait for an NOS top plate to come up on eBay and you’ll be laughing. In the meantime pitting shouldn’t stop you taking photos so just hide the camera if bullies gather around.

[spydrxx]

I'd start negotiating with a 90% discount, as the pitting may be indicative of other issues. If the seller turns up his nose at this, I'd unhesitatingly walk away.

[pgk]

If you look on ebay there are M6 top plates available but they are pricey. Easy way to figure a viable asking price is the asking price of similar cameras unpitted less the asking price of a replacement. I would suggest that this means something in the region of at least a 20~30% reduction.

[250swb]

Imagine if you started to ask for a 90% discount on a worn black paint Leica using the same reasoning as is happening in this thread? Pitting is something that happens on many zinc top plate cameras of the era, it isn’t unusual, it doesn’t stop the camera working, it is purely cosmetic. If the camera works and has no other issues a sensible discount would be reasonable. 

[stray cat]

The M6TTL is a brilliant camera, and it is a Leica. Whatever "pitting" is on the top plate does not make its user take worse photos. 

The "pitting" was apparently of no concern to your friend in his use of the camera and I presume it has nothing to do with the reason he is selling his camera. And so it will be once he finds the right buyer - someone who is concerned with photography as opposed to all the white noise we hear about cosmetics.

As Jaap has indicated - he'd be best advised finding a buyer then negotiating if need be.

[BradS]

"Pitted" ????  You mean zinc zits? Leica had the zinc alloy issues pretty well figured out by the time the M6TTL came out. So why does this one have zinc-zits?

How & where was it stored?   What else is wrong with it?  Is there other evidence of corrosion?

Even if I were in the market for an M6TTL (I'm definitely not) I'd want to have hands on time with the thing and thoroughly check it out before making an offer.

BUT, more importantly, if this is a friend and you value the friendship more than a small discount on a camera that will undoubtedly be a disappointment, it's probably best to take a pass on this one.

[Fotoklaus]

vor 14 Stunden schrieb nitroplait:

I have a friend who wants to sell an M6 TTL with a severely pitted top plate.

It is only cosmetic so he thinks it’s irrelevant, but I am telling him that the devil is in the details. 
How much less would you pay for a M6 ttl with a pitted top plate surface (35%) versus an un-pitted one with normal wear?

 

At first ask yourself if you want such a camera and what it would be worth to you. The question is where this pitting comes from.

I found this camera en Ebay:

https://www.ebay.de/itm/Leitz-Leica-M6-TTL-0-72-Nr-2481572-1x-Deckel-Tragriemen-/334664192929?hash=item4deb8a53a1%3Ag%3ARsgAAOSwDlpjmFgh&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAwOqYxO2s8867dJBnIoUMEuQdTN4JsvuMDANUlibg0ByCKl%2F%2BpVBp4eYAP8eudsppTPreHshxHMtm4j2i5AJniuWcHZwCm8K9OmW1WDXNX1SbTxT8c4Yn96oDkx3wPyczao%2FHJFdTpF6a3H%2BECZEuJIoKU35l6tXLfkEAKliBlXQrAvVw5Bsbga7NIC2MzylNIhM%2BqXsRs6C8cP6jN%2B9DIzA5GzwSBedPD0%2Fo47dxqwHkLHvoHzWqNUIh%2BBXM5cyzow%3D%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR6aY27reYQ&nma=true&si=jgt6k70iimcnO2gtoeurwCuNCkY%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Looks like it took some salty fogs or humidity due to bad storage?

I would rather buy a camera with some scratches or minor dents due to regular usage than such an item where nobody knows what happened really.

If there is corrosion on the outside there may also be corrosion on the inside and on the electronics. Small dents and scratches may  not look

good but have no affect on the camera ´s internals.

 

[andrew01]

‘Severe pitting’ does sound like it has been stored in damp conditions for a long time.  I think the camera would be a good candidate to send off for a complete strip down, repaint and rebuild from Cameraworks or similar.   If it was me I would offer something in the region of $500 to $600.  Does the meter work?  The storage conditions that would have caused the pitting are unlikely to be favorable for the irreplaceable meter circuit.  If the meter is not working I would offer in the range of $300 to $400.

[jaapv]

11 hours ago, 250swb said:

Imagine if you started to ask for a 90% discount on a worn black paint Leica using the same reasoning as is happening in this thread? Pitting is something that happens on many zinc top plate cameras of the era, it isn’t unusual, it doesn’t stop the camera working, it is purely cosmetic. If the camera works and has no other issues a sensible discount would be reasonable. 

It is. quite rare on the M6TTL.

[250swb]

It may be a long time since pitting was discussed as a contemporary problem and all the evidence and wisdom has since been forgotten along the way. But pitting is not due to damp corrosion since it rarely breaches through the silver or black plated surface, so ask yourself how did it get wet underneath the plating? It is due to impurities in the zinc itself as it is cast. For the same reason if the plating gets rubbed through the zinc doesn't immediately erupt into corrosion.

Edited March 18, 2023 by 250swb

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[nitroplait]

Just to be clear. I am not a potential buyer.

He is asking me advise on the pricing and he was surprise how much importance I attributed to the zinc pitting issue.

I don't exactly know how it is kept, but he has a receipt dated 2000 and has used it quite a bit except for the last few years. It does not smell musty, meter is accurate, operation, shutter and curtains looks and sounds healthy.

If I was in the market for a M6TTL I would consider it if it wasn't for the top plate.

Like most people here, I wouldn't even consider it as is, but on the other hand; some people swear to the mantra "it is just a tool". And if that is the case, this camera fits the bill.

I guess that a fair price would be the going rate of a M6TTL minus the price of a clean top plate - they seem to be available NOS for around $600.

If he doesn't understand my argument, I'll refer him to this thread 😉 

 

Edited March 18, 2023 by nitroplait