Pitting Leica M6 TTL - how much less?

[Steve Ricoh]

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If the ‘new’ M6 top plate fits the classic, I think I’ve hit on an idea. Get yourself a ‘scratcher’ and do a transplant. Job done.

[BradS]

7 hours ago, 250swb said:

I think it's obvious 'rust' was used in this case as an emotive term to ratchet up feelings about a few zits on a camera body. I don't know where the inclination comes from to try and devalue a lot of photographers cameras which have zits by downgrading them further, but 'rust' implies an ongoing process and the camera must have been misused and may have other problems. The evidence is here in this thread, people have commented about the issue and wrongly assumed misuse. None of my zinc top Leica's have zits, but if they did I'd be pretty annoyed if somebody comes along and makes a concerted effort to chop a few hundred more dollars off the value. There are a lot of photographers who want to use Leica's and they don't have pockets of money to show off with, and while an M6 with zits may not be perfect cosmetically they can still work as efficiently as one without, and owners don't deserve being kicked in the nuts by snobbish attitudes. The camera with zits may have been kept in a humidity controlled cabinet from new, or it may be somebody's first second hand Leica purchase, but branding them as thoughtless owners because of something that isn't in their control is taking it too far. This is how bogus Leica myths start, it needs stopping.

I get what you're saying and kinda agree. I am one of those folks who really cannot afford a Leica but, I bought one anyway, just to see what all the fuss is about.  I've bought and sold a few trying to find one that I could feel comfortable using.  One of those was a an M6 from the first batch and it had a few zinc zits. The blemishes worked to my advantage - I got the camera at a slight discount - about 25% - and the zits never showed up on film!    The lightmeter in that M6 eventually failed - due to, you guessed it warm, humid climate. DAG repaired it and I sold it short after that.  Now I have an M2 that shows years of heavy use. It works perfectly, the rangefinder is clear and bright and quite accurate and it cost less than half of what the blemished M6 sold for....but even that beat up M2 is worth as much as one month's rent...so, I keep looking at it and thinking, I could sell this, pay the rent and have some money left over....

I'll just note that your assumption that a rusty car or a corroded Leica implies "careless owner" is...well, your assumption and it is not necessarily true as anybody living in Southern California, less than a mile from the Pacific Ocean can tell you. Nobody is saying the owner of a Leica with zinc zits is thoughtless or careless...they might just live in a warm, humid climate with air pollution or salt air (from the ocean). Those environmental factors take a toll on metals.

Edited March 19, 2023 by BradS

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[Herr Barnack]

On 3/18/2023 at 6:06 AM, Fotoklaus said:

Put the camera to Ebay, describe everything honest and wait for the result.

That's it.

Or your friend could try the Japanese method:  Put the camera to Ebay, describe everything in ebayspeak ("mint condition, like new in box, pristine") price it 125% over what is within reason and wait for the result.  😅

Edited March 19, 2023 by Herr Barnack

[Huss]

4 hours ago, pgk said:

Firstly, most rofessional photographers are reasonably careful with their gear but, as it is in constant use, it will get a 'patina' of wear and occasional knocks. But it is a myth that professional photographers mistreat gear if they don't pay for it. Apart from anything else, if gear fails in the middle of a shoot questions would be asked if it had been abused.

Lack of use and poor storage are a result of neglect. Storage in damp conditions causes lots of problems the most significant of which is fungus and this can be too expensive to remove.

Lastly, pitting due to impurities in the zinc is not 'rust'! It is not exacerbated by damp (how can it be?) and will not affect the camera in any way other than cosmetic appearance. I once ownd such an M6 which of course worked perfectly.

I used the term ‘rust’ as describing a chemical reaction of the base metal - zinc - with whatever impurities resulted in the corrosion causing bubbles.  Which is what I wrote.  I never mentioned zinc reacting with damp etc that you suggest I did.

[pgk]

Zinc corrodes, iron rusts. Rust itself is defined as iron oxide and forms in the presence of moisture. Your use of the word is quite incorrect and it has nothing to do with M6 top plates.

[Huss]

16 minutes ago, pgk said:

Zinc corrodes, iron rusts. Rust itself is defined as iron oxide and forms in the presence of moisture. Your use of the word is quite incorrect and it has nothing to do with M6 top plates.

Yes and I already mentioned the difference several times. Including the word “corrosion” in the post immediately before yours.

Edited March 19, 2023 by Huss

[Fotoklaus]

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vor 19 Stunden schrieb Mute-on:

Exactly!

It’s not at all like a rusty car, and should in no way be compared to a neglected tool.  It has no better or worse prospect of poor mechanical condition than any other M6 that, we assume, has not been dropped, dented, handled roughly, or otherwise abused.

In principle, this example ought to be worth exactly the price of a cosmetically mint M6 TTL (yes, we all know that is no guarantee of good mechanical condition) less the price of a new top plate and the cost to instal it. In reality, if it’s in excellent working condition with a recent service, it’s probably a better prospect as is than 50% of M6s (or any earlier film Ms) on the market. 
 

However since we have no verification of the actual cosmetic or mechanical condition of @nitroplait ‘s friend’s camera, this is all moot, really. 

Look at the camera I have placed a link to ebay some posts before. It looks really bad,(corrosion on the top , on the back and on the bottom) was honestly described and was sold for

2200 €.

Som eyears ago such a camera would have been sold for maybe 300 €. Reality is: The Leica hype let you sell anything .

[kroko]

vor 10 Stunden schrieb Steve Ricoh:

If the ‘new’ M6 top plate fits the classic, I think I’ve hit on an idea. Get yourself a ‘scratcher’ and do a transplant. Job done.

if the problem was only the top plate then that would be an interesting solution. Although a backdoor probably isnt too hard to get as well

[250swb]

16 hours ago, BradS said:

 

I'll just note that your assumption that a rusty car or a corroded Leica implies "careless owner" is...well, your assumption and it is not necessarily true as anybody living in Southern California, less than a mile from the Pacific Ocean can tell you. Nobody is saying the owner of a Leica with zinc zits is thoughtless or careless...they might just live in a warm, humid climate with air pollution or salt air (from the ocean). Those environmental factors take a toll on metals.

The assumption of there being a careless owner wasn't made by me, it comes with the context of what had been said in the discussion previously and the misinformation being put out. But 'rust' was buying in to the idea of zinc pimples being a sign of misuse and hyping the situation up even further. It is almost as if owning a brand new M6 puts somebody on a perch from which they can look down and dump on owners of 'old, rusty, and misused' zinc top plate cameras.

[nitroplait]

After further examination of his camera, I have arrived at a theory as to why the problem happened to his M6TTL.

There are a handful of people on the internet that complained about the inside of the Leica M6 ever-ready case (14870) having left residue on the metal on contact points - the reason seems to chemical rather than humidity.

My friend have actually kept his camera in the 14870 case. The case fits both the M6 form factor cameras and the M6TTL, but the TTL being taller has more contact with the leather on the top plate.

When looking at the velvet in his case, the bubbling surface of the chrome on the camera is exactly where the contact points was.

Another reason to keep cameras and leather apart.