Another help me choose between SL2 and SL2-S

[MapleSyrup]

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46 minutes ago, hansvons said:

I don't know how you want to set up your system, but the SL2/S will eventually need a lens or two. The SL2-S will allow more money for the lens sector at a given budget than the SL2. Perhaps a reason to go for the SL2-S, as lenses are arguably more critical than sensors?

(I've shot landscapes, cityscapes and whatnot with the SL2-S and can't find a reason not to use it. It has excellent pixels (DR/colour in the shadows) that roughly resolve to what typically would be a 6x6 medium format film. For me, that's plenty enough. For today's printers as well, at least up to A2).

You make a good point. This would allow for me to spend less on the body and more on lenses and when the SL3 comes out, I could re-evaluate. However I like to buy once and hold for a while. The constant upgrades have gotten old and tiring to me.

2 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said:

I meant newer and different in terms of BSI and MP! I think it is the BSI technology that allows the better low light performance of the SL2S (noise and colour). I have no other technical knowledge to add. In normal light and normal enlargements I noticed no difference between the two (I used both cameras, one after the other after trading one for the other, for a project with similar challenges of colour and fine detail). I didn't choose the SL2S simply because it had the newer sensor; I chose it because I didn't need the extra pixels, and the low light performance was better. At the time (late 2021) that trade was seen as a downgrade; now I think there is enough recognition of the different strengths of each sensor to suggest you pick the one that suits your needs. In your case I would choose the SL2; for my needs, I prefer the SL2S.

Good point

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[Photoworks]

For Professional work you should have a back up camera. No?

whe I go to a job i will have an extra of everything , if one fails, i can still finish any job.

[MapleSyrup]

20 minutes ago, Photoworks said:

For Professional work you should have a back up camera. No?

whe I go to a job i will have an extra of everything , if one fails, i can still finish any job.

I don’t do this professionally per say, tough to explain. Let’s leave it as a personal camera. 

[davidmknoble]

If you are still deciding, I had the SL2 and traded it for an SL2-S. Not cityscape, but I do a lot of landscape work on the coast and the dynamic range of the SL2-S is a stop or more ahead of the SL2.  I was blowing highlights or getting dirty shadows with the SL2.  The SL2-S seems much more manageable.  Just my thoughts…

[MapleSyrup]

1 minute ago, davidmknoble said:

If you are still deciding, I had the SL2 and traded it for an SL2-S. Not cityscape, but I do a lot of landscape work on the coast and the dynamic range of the SL2-S is a stop or more ahead of the SL2.  I was blowing highlights or getting dirty shadows with the SL2.  The SL2-S seems much more manageable.  Just my thoughts…

Thanks for the reply. How did you feel about moving down in MP? Do you feel you lost anything? I’m starting to reconsider the MP issue as the product photography is mostly up close so not sure how much detail would actually be lost. 

[Almizilero]

vor 15 Stunden schrieb wdshuck:

I came from an A7RIV and was similarly torn. I ended up with an SL2S and have not missed the extra MP, however low light performance was a bigger concern for me.

Same for me. Never looked back. In the few instances that I felt I needed more MP, the Lightroom Supersize feature did a stellar job. And there is even better Software out there for that kind of thing.
I tested both when I got a Leica. I liked the colours and the low light performance of the SL2S much better (even when comparing a downsized image from the SL2). So it was an easy decission. But I don't shoot stuff that “requires” big MP (I mean, look at us, only a couple of years ago 24 was megapixel madness and now it's the bottom of the barrel... :D) .

[hansvons]

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7 hours ago, MapleSyrup said:

I’m starting to reconsider the MP issue

Before you head to higher MPs, I'd give Topaz Photo AI a go. The latest version is incredibly powerful. The better the image's detail and sharpness, the better the resolution-enhanced image. It works a treat for well-exposed and sharply shot landscapes. Set noise suppression to 0 and indulge in wonderful, subtle textures when you try it. You must tinker with it, as defaults target a clean images-loving audience. But IMHO, this is a game changer (usually, I loathe that term, but in this case, it fits). 

[pwr1978]

I just went though a similar decision making process and settled on a used SL2 + 24-70mm SL lens. I’ve also bought a used 75mm APO. Literally just pulled the trigger end of last week and awaiting delivery. 

My main justification was that I like the extra megapixels to work with. I can’t imagine going down in pixel count from the 40 megapixels of my M10R, I like to be able to crop.

I’ll be using it to photograph portraits/headshots (both natural light and using monolights), and corporate and architectural stuff for businesses.

Time will tell if I made the right decision, but I feel buying second hand means I can always trade the SL2 for an SL2-S if I need to. FWIW the SL2 goes for about AUD $1000 more than the SL2-S used here in Australia (that’s about USD $672).

[MapleSyrup]

1 hour ago, pwr1978 said:

I just went though a similar decision making process and settled on a used SL2 + 24-70mm SL lens. I’ve also bought a used 75mm APO. Literally just pulled the trigger end of last week and awaiting delivery. 

My main justification was that I like the extra megapixels to work with. I can’t imagine going down in pixel count from the 40 megapixels of my M10R, I like to be able to crop.

I’ll be using it to photograph portraits/headshots (both natural light and using monolights), and corporate and architectural stuff for businesses.

Time will tell if I made the right decision, but I feel buying second hand means I can always trade the SL2 for an SL2-S if I need to. FWIW the SL2 goes for about AUD $1000 more than the SL2-S used here in Australia (that’s about USD $672).

You’ve made it difficult now for me, haha. That is my justification for the SL2  especially when it comes to product photography. You can’t add more megapixels and I think enhancing a photo is great, but I look at it in the same way that you up scale 1080p video to 4K it’s almost as if it’s faking, what’s not there. That, is more of a personal mind thing for me. 

[hansvons]

3 hours ago, Almizilero said:

And there is even better Software out there for that kind of thing.

This link leads to a before/after comparison of a landscape shot taken with the SL2-S at 6k and put through C1 with a slight sharpening on the pixel level, which helps the AI to understand the image better and doesn't require de-blurring or sharpening afterwards. In Topaz Photo AI, I scaled the image to 8K and applied a tad of clarity. 

https://nextcloud.jubelmeldung.de/index.php/s/S5Yr3sxPnm3SmNq

I shoot mainly at ISO 800 as I like texture. Plus, at that ISO, unwanted overexpose is almost impossible, and recovering shadows with the SL2-S is a comforting exercise.

[Photoworks]

you can see how the AI is changing the image, not just resizing 

 

[LocalHero1953]

8 hours ago, hansvons said:

Before you head to higher MPs, I'd give Topaz Photo AI a go. The latest version is incredibly powerful. The better the image's detail and sharpness, the better the resolution-enhanced image. It works a treat for well-exposed and sharply shot landscapes. Set noise suppression to 0 and indulge in wonderful, subtle textures when you try it. You must tinker with it, as defaults target a clean images-loving audience. But IMHO, this is a game changer (usually, I loathe that term, but in this case, it fits). 

At risk of diverting the thread: how do you see Topaz Photo compared to DeNoise and Sharpen? Are they complementary or can you replace DeNoise and Sharpen with Photo? My biggest decision with the latter two is which one to use, because if I use them sequentially I get too many artefacts. A single Photo app as a plug-in to Lightroom would be useful.

[davidmknoble]

23 hours ago, MapleSyrup said:

Thanks for the reply. How did you feel about moving down in MP? Do you feel you lost anything? I’m starting to reconsider the MP issue as the product photography is mostly up close so not sure how much detail would actually be lost. 

To be honest, I wasn’t sure I would like it.  However, for stills, you can still get the large files with the sensor shift.  I could not do that at the coast because the ocean moves.  I’ve shot with the S007 and S3 for about 5-6 years now, so I understand the ability of the sensors to underexpose and then bring up shadows while protecting the highlights.  Yet, the SL2 didn’t have the dynamic range to do that well.  The SL2-S, for me, was so much better it was worth the trade off in MP and I have had no trouble printing good sized prints.  You can also try Gigapixel AI which works well, or upsizing in photoshop / capture 1.  Not the same thing, but again, I’ve not had a problem.  I do think the M11 and S3 are ahead of the SL2-S, but the compatibility of M lenses, R lenses, S lenses, Nikon AIS lenses and SL lenses all on the same body is incredible.  It’s become my ‘second’ body with any system I shoot with.

[hdmesa]

On 3/5/2023 at 9:24 AM, MapleSyrup said:

70% - Product photography. These are all done in studio in controlled lighting and always on a tripod.

25% - Architectural/Landscape/City Photography. Some of this may be done at night, but I'd expect most of it to be done with a tripod. Cityscapes, perhaps some street photography.

5% - Family photos. I have a newborn and I'd love to use this to capture their moments.

If you can't wait for the SL3, I would choose the GFX 100S over the SL2 for your needs listed above.

[LCM94]

On 3/5/2023 at 6:55 PM, wdshuck said:

I came from an A7RIV and was similarly torn. I ended up with an SL2S and have not missed the extra MP, however low light performance was a bigger concern for me.

And now you can use pixel shift for hi res pictures up to 96mpx if needed. 

[Ken Abrahams]

I dont work professionally but I am a discerning image maker who wants the right tools tools for the job. My street work is often in shadowy areas and I like to be able to crop into images using predominantly 35 mm lenses. The M10M is great for my monochrom work however the previous SL 601 would throw up a bit of grain in the shadows sometimes. The SLS has the same kind of texture and colour as the 601 and 24 mpxl sensor, it matches my previous work well. I dont often sharpen images however when cropped SL2S files are processed and brought back into Camera raw, adding some noise reduction and sharpness rectifies any grain/noise concerns emphatically. The SL2 on the other hand hasn't any loss of image quality when cropping however the grain and noise in shadowy areas is less desirable. The SL2 is a winner in full light and I imagine to be the choice in studio work or well lit scenes. The grain or decreased dynamic range of the SL2 is not too bad or at least not as much as the advice on this forum outlines. The grain/noise is important however it comes down to the discerning photographer who is experienced enough to see the difference and who is wanting the upmost "edge" to his work.   

I mainly bought into SL2S because of the IBIS and its potential for movement work. Being able to capture a moving subject at slow shutter speeds while the background remains sharp. Well my purchasing story is haphazard in that I initially wanted the SL2s and my store suggested the Lens/Camara deal. I paid the money however there were supply issues or something delaying the arrival of my purchase. There was an SL2 and 50  Summicron lens kit available and after a month of waiting for the SL2s I took the suppliers recommendations and accepted the SL2. I was happy with the extra pixels and the camera is fantastic. Later I realised that I really didnt get what I wanted. It's like being split between favouring two sons, which isnt a good idea. Leica have "split the baby in two" and decisions to which one are most difficult. The continued discussions on this forum about the differences of the two cameras led me to purchasing the SL2s recently, in the form of a Reporter model. Exactly what I wanted in the beginning.

 

It's an expensive option to buy both especially when considering the new models on the horizon. I couldn't be happier alternating between the two cameras and using M lenses on the SL2s and the SL 35 Apo on the SL2. The new 50 SL Summicron isnt too bad either.

Good luck deciding

Ken       

 

 

[Olaf_ZG]

17 hours ago, Ken Abrahams said:

It's like being split between favouring two sons, which isnt a good idea. Leica have "split the baby in two" and decisions to which one are most difficult.

I hope this will be solved with the SL3. If yes, I will upgrade, if not I might either buy a 2nd sl2 to complement the s or move to another system: hasselblad is always tempting…

[SrMi]

2 hours ago, Olaf_ZG said:

I hope this will be solved with the SL3. If yes, I will upgrade, if not I might either buy a 2nd sl2 to complement the s or move to another system: hasselblad is always tempting…

I also expect SL3 to merge the best from SL2 and SL2-S and be even better. It's Leica, after all :).

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