Bye Bye Leica

[Marac]

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Happines + satisfaction = Harmony

I shoot Voigtlander 10 4.5/21 1.8/35 1.2/50 1.2/75 1.5 Leica 90/2.8

I use these on my M9M & my CL with no complaints at all, Happy & Satisfied

Enjoy what you have.

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[Jeff S]

3 hours ago, Chris W said:

Let's face it, 99% of Leica themed Youtube channels are in the pocket of Leica. You can't run a camera gear review channel if no one will lend you the gear to review.

I've stopped watching all the channels that post their review videos the same hour a new Leica product is announced.

When the M11 was announced all the same reviewers posted 'review' videos when they had been loaned an M11 for a few hours in Manhattan. It's really insulting to our intelligence to expect people to spend $10k on a system someone had spent two hours with before posting their glowing review.

I'm not subbed to Mr Leica. His videos often pop up in my Youtube feed however. He's pretty level headed, not generally hyped, and very honest about his opinions.

See my post above.

Jeff

Edited March 1, 2023 by Jeff S

[T25UFO]

On 2/27/2023 at 8:52 AM, Chris W said:

Many people start with a deposit of £10,000

Hmm . . . I started with a deposit of just £50 but the house was only £9,050 and it was in Macclesfield.  Oh, and it was in 1974 😀

[Chris W]

1 hour ago, Jeff S said:

They also spend a lot of time in many videos testing Leica lenses against each other… in studio by David (teddy bears and such) and test charts Josh shoots, etc.  

I put some store by reviewers who actually use a product in their work. They will often find an issue of ergonomics or workflow that has been missed by the lab test type reviewers.

I use a cross section of reviewers, forums etc to at least get some understanding of a product before I investigate further.

It's not that easy to get hold of some things in the UK. It's not exactly encouraged to buy things knowing you are going to return them. When I return expensive products I'm always nervous until I receive my refund.

Overall I find most reviewers rave about stuff too much. When I decide to add the item to my arsenal I'm often underwhelmed. 

[Jeff S]

27 minutes ago, Chris W said:

I put some store by reviewers who actually use a product in their work. They will often find an issue of ergonomics or workflow that has been missed by the lab test type reviewers.

I use a cross section of reviewers, forums etc to at least get some understanding of a product before I investigate further.

It's not that easy to get hold of some things in the UK. It's not exactly encouraged to buy things knowing you are going to return them. When I return expensive products I'm always nervous until I receive my refund.

Overall I find most reviewers rave about stuff too much. When I decide to add the item to my arsenal I'm often underwhelmed. 

Easy in the US through dealers and/or rental  companies. Even for CV lenses… Stephen Gandy at CameraQuest provides a 30 day… no questions asked… return policy. I don’t need to buy often… I’m about pictures and prints, not GAS… but when I do, there’s no substitute for actual use. Assessing handling, ergonomics, controls, image quality, etc. all depend on my personal shooting, editing and printing needs and preferences, none of which reviewers can provide for me.  And, beyond that, there’s sample variation, which only can be assessed with personal experience.  Works for me; others use different approaches, including forum surveys that fill these pages daily.  Whatever floats one’s boat.

Jeff

[SoarFM]

8 hours ago, Leitz. said:

Red Dot is fine, but their information is quite empty IMO. You don’t get samples and comparisons and detailed information. It’s all very general talking. 

On balance, I think Red Dot does a real nice Youtube show

It is a production put on by the owner of a Leica store. They have made a conscious decision to refrain from reviewing or comparing the Leica equipment to other brands that they do not sell. That seems a reasonable and defensible decision. They are also not afraid to call out Leica when something is not what Leica claims it is, a good example is the Leica claim that pixel binning to lower resolutions on the M11 will produce cleaner, more noise free images. Red Dot says they have tested that claim and they can’t see it. Just shoot the full 60 mp resolution unless storage space is a concern.

Also, if you wish to learn about the lineage and differences within lens lines, e.g the characteristics which make one more sought after than others, their shows can be a real treasure trove of information —with examples. 

As the owner of numerous different Leica 35’s and 50’s (and 28’s…), my interest in Leica lenses (and Voigtlanders, and now Lightlabs) has been about the different looks lens selection brings to the image. Long ago, I learned and began to appreciate that having the highest resolving and contrasty lens (“sharp”) was just one thing and not necessarily the thing. 

 

 

[Leitz.]

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33 minutes ago, SoarFM said:

As the owner of numerous different Leica 35’s and 50’s (and 28’s…), my interest in Leica lenses (and Voigtlanders, and now Lightlabs) has been about the different looks lens selection brings to the image. Long ago, I learned and began to appreciate that having the highest resolving and contrasty lens (“sharp”) was just one thing and not necessarily the thing. 

Me too. That’s why I changed from the APO-Lanthar to the Summicron. I went the other way from Matt. 

Also why I may go from my Ultron to the Summaron. I’m not interested in the sharpest most perfect lens or 3D “pop” or blurry backgrounds. 

[Herr Barnack]

On 2/28/2023 at 3:19 AM, Ouroboros said:

Mediocre, hard-up photographer announces he is selling some lenses because he needs some cash.Heated debate breaks out on a forum between grown-ups about one brand of lenses vs other brands. [snip]          ...Elsewhere,  people are suffering and dying whilst those who will never need to soil their hands scrabbling through rubble in search of their crushed, burnt, murdered and fragmented loved ones wait to be told how to spend their money on nothing much at all.

Call this photography? Something has gone wrong. 

 

What you are describing is not photography - it is business as usual on an internet photography forum.  It has precious little to less than nothing to do with actual photography.

Edited March 1, 2023 by Herr Barnack

[Chris W]

I don't think there has been any heated debate between one brand and another.

Apparently some people started to dismiss 'Mr Leica' because he has sold some of his Leica lenses.

That hasn't caused any of us to sell our Leica lenses. It's just unfair to call him out as anti-Leica or an amateur YouTuber.

He uses the gear in a professional manner, yeah, maybe not at the Magnum level, I agree, but it's better than the usual 'street photography' most YouTubers display.

[Chris W]

1 hour ago, Jeff S said:

Easy in the US through dealers and/or rental  companies.

Last time I looked the rental on a Leica lens for one day was something quite phenomenal £££££.

The stores here often advertise discounted 'open box' cameras and lenses, which is I assume people who purchased a new Leica lens for example and fairly quickly returned it. Personally that makes me feel bad, something I would avoid doing as a matter of course. I try not to buy things on spec, thinking I will probably return them. It's just adding to the carbon footprint and I guess causing the store to downgrade their item from new to 'open box'.

[Chris W]

53 minutes ago, Leitz. said:

I’m not interested in the sharpest most perfect lens or 3D “pop” or blurry backgrounds. 

That's the criteria Matt usually invokes, which is why he uses a lot of vintage lenses, and also film.

[Chris W]

1 hour ago, SoarFM said:

On balance, I think Red Dot does a real nice Youtube show

It is a production put on by the owner of a Leica store.

 

 

So they are never going to advise not buying a Leica product. I've watched it a few times and it is very obviously a dealer basically glowing about everything Leica. That's fine, I understood it. I don't need to watch one hour plus of someone raving about the latest lens or M body.

[Leitz.]

9 minutes ago, Chris W said:

That's the criteria Matt usually invokes, which is why he uses a lot of vintage lenses, and also film.

He’s a portrait guy. He likes that sort of thing. At my apertures any lens will do. 😀

[Jeff S]

12 minutes ago, Chris W said:

Last time I looked the rental on a Leica lens for one day was something quite phenomenal £££££.

The stores here often advertise discounted 'open box' cameras and lenses, which is I assume people who purchased a new Leica lens for example and fairly quickly returned it. Personally that makes me feel bad, something I would avoid doing as a matter of course. I try not to buy things on spec, thinking I will probably return them. It's just adding to the carbon footprint and I guess causing the store to downgrade their item from new to 'open box'.

Lensrentals offers something like the 35 Summicron ASPH v.2 for about 100 bucks for 4 day rental… and typically has discounts (currently 10%).  Some dealers call items demo or open box so that they can discount actually new items in ways that Leica wouldn’t otherwise allow by policy.  I won’t mention names. Sample variation would also be less with better QC.. each party bears some responsibility in the whole supply… and return… and service..chain. My footprint remains intact.

Jeff

[logan2z]

11 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

Lensrentals offers something like the 35 Summicron ASPH v.2 for about 100 bucks for 4 day rental… 

I looked recently and it was about $147 for 7 days, which I didn't think was too bad for an opportunity to test drive the lens before commiting to a $4K purchase. 

[Ouroboros]

54 minutes ago, Herr Barnack said:

What you are describing is not photography - it is business as usual on an internet photography forum.  It has precious little to less than nothing to do with actual photography.

Trivia is the lifeblood of Social Media.  For some.

[Jeff S]

18 minutes ago, logan2z said:

I looked recently and it was about $147 for 7 days, which I didn't think was too bad for an opportunity to test drive the lens before commiting to a $4K purchase. 

Yes, and one can rent for any daily increment.  Ten percent discount now, too.  I can typically get a free demo, if available, from a good dealer rather than rental, but I don’t buy often, and a relatively small expense is worth it to me regardless.  I rented the 50 APO Summicron a while back, and actually saved thousands by deciding that I preferred my 50 Summilux ASPH for various reasons that weren’t evident from any reviews.

Jeff

[Chris W]

18 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

Yes, and one can rent for any daily increment.  Ten percent discount now, too.  I can typically get a free demo, if available, from a good dealer rather than rental, but I don’t buy often, and a relatively small expense is worth it to me regardless.

After a few minutes of Googling I couldn't actually find anyone renting Leica gear in the UK. There was a place renting Leica L mount, but all the lenses were Sigma or Panasonic.

I found one place that would rent you a Q2 for £95 a day ($115 US). There's probably insurance on top. If you took it somewhere for a four day weekend, that would be close to $500.

If there is somewhere that rents M gear in the UK, they are hard to find. I'm sure if you are a Leica high roller you can borrow gear from the main Leica stores (one in London, one in Manchester). But you'd have to be someone who often buys the new body and lens at RRP when they are launched.

A year ago I looked at renting some Leica gear for a photo shoot in France. I was going to be gone a week. Again, it was hard to find anything, but what I found would have worked out more than just buying a Panasonic L mount camera or second hand Q. 

Edited March 1, 2023 by Chris W

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[84bravo]

14 hours ago, SoarFM said:

I didn't mean to offend anyones sensibilities. 

Not at all!

 

[Ko.Fe.]

I just realized Mr. Funky Voice has no idea what he is talking about. 

 

He is soo clueless and totally ignorant after he was told about his lies on very first day. 

He credibility just went zero. Unsubscribing from this dross.