Bye Bye Leica

[RexGig0]

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Some thoughts:

The title of his video is a bit much “click bait,” in my opinion, because he is not leaving the Leica M system, but simply selling/trading some Leica lenses. Matt Osborne is still using a Leica M camera, and still using M-mount lenses. 

As a user of several Zeiss ZM and Voigtlander LTM and ZM lenses, I agree that it can be reasonable to use M-mount lenses other than Leica. A brief period of relative prosperity allowed me but into the Leica system, which included buying a New M10, a pre-owned M Type 246 Monochrom, and several pre-owned Leica lenses. In the future, I believe I will have a Voigtlander budget, and appreciate the apparent honesty of Matt Osborne’s reviews.

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[SoarFM]

4 hours ago, 84bravo said:

My current daily driver car is worth less than $1000.

That sounds like a great way to save money. I’m much more average. 

[Leitz.]

On 2/26/2023 at 2:00 AM, logan2z said:

No, I'm not selling my Leica gear but, apparently, Mr. Leica is - at least many of his lenses.  Interesting video, with a good, balanced explanation as to why he's giving up some of his Leica lenses for Voigtlanders. 

 

Well, he had some older versions of the Leica lenses and replaced them with the Voigtlander modern equivalents. 

One could level the same criticism at the older Voigtlander versions  

Leica has updated their lenses of course but he’s trying to save up to buy a house. 

In the case of the 50 Summicron he just wasn’t using it much because he uses the Summilux and he kept the APO-Lanthar. 

I went the other way. I sold the APO-Lanthar for the Summicron v5. The Lanthar is too clinical. Perfect; sharp. Too big and heavy for an f2. The Summicron gives me more character, more charm, more paint like softness at times whereas the Lanthar can be so Sharp at times it can look cartoonish. 

Keep in mind he wanted a sharp lens without optical flaws as he shoots film as well. So the Lanthar is a good choice for him.

In terms of the 28 Ultron II, that’s the 28 I use because of what he says. It’s very hard to justify the cost of a 28 Summicron when that lens exists. 

Edited February 27, 2023 by Leitz.

[SoarFM]

11 minutes ago, RexGig0 said:

Some thoughts:

The title of his video is a bit much “click bait,” in my opinion, because he is not leaving the Leica M system, but simply selling/trading some Leica lenses. Matt Osborne is still using a Leica M camera, and still using M-mount lenses. 

As a user of several Zeiss ZM and Voigtlander LTM and ZM lenses, I agree that it can be reasonable to use M-mount lenses other than Leica. A brief period of relative prosperity allowed me but into the Leica system, which included buying a New M10, a pre-owned M Type 246 Monochrom, and several pre-owned Leica lenses. In the future, I believe I will have a Voigtlander budget, and appreciate the apparent honesty of Matt Osborne’s reviews.

I think the one market Leica has cornered is the rangefinder camera market that takes M mount lenses. If you want to use M mount lenses (whether they are Leica, Zeiss or Voigtlander) trouble free, a Leica M is the simplest answer and best answer. I used an M mount lens on my sony A7R2 for about 10 minutes years ago and decided all the shading and smearing issues were a headache I wasn’t going to get.

Voigtlander lenses work spectacularly on the M cameras. One is more expensive than the others. They all work well imparting their own character. I even own two 50mm Voigtlanders, not because they are better or cheaper but because they impart a different look than my Leica 50mm’s, of which I have four. You might say I like 50 mm lenses…

 

[Einst_Stein]

MrLeica has been MrVoigtlander for quite a while. I watched his youtube review and purchased Voigtlander Ultron 28mm and 35mm, but soon returned them.

Voigtlander IQ deteriorates quickly towards the edge. Though it has wide aperture, at F4 and above, it can't catch up with MATE. I guess his photo style is mainly beautiful woman portraits. I can understand the edge performance is not so important, at least not as important as landscape, architecture, etc. Though it still OK if the edge image is not on the same distance. (You would think the edge is out of focus). 

My experiences, Voigtlander, TTArtisan, 7Artisans are all more or less in this category, though Voigtlander is significant better. 

If you don't care much about the edge performance, you'll be fine to drop Leica. You'll save a lot of money.     

[Leitz.]

5 minutes ago, Einst_Stein said:

Ultron 28mm

As far as the 28 Ultron version 2, I’ve never noticed any issues towards the edges. From what I’ve seen it’s pretty much on par with the Summicron. 

[Qlan]

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26 minutes ago, Leitz. said:

As far as the 28 Ultron version 2, I’ve never noticed any issues towards the edges. From what I’ve seen it’s pretty much on par with the Summicron. 

This. Fred Miranda did a comparison and even found that the Ultron v2 actually outperforms the Summicron at center and extreme corners for resolution and contrast.

Edited February 27, 2023 by Qlan

[Einst_Stein]

28 minutes ago, Leitz. said:

As far as the 28 Ultron version 2, I’ve never noticed any issues towards the edges. From what I’ve seen it’s pretty much on par with the Summicron. 

Mine was version 2. I am not interested to discuss our different view.  

Whoever interested can just buy from B&H, if not satisfied, returned it. 

Edited February 27, 2023 by Einst_Stein

[Einst_Stein]

1 hour ago, Qlan said:

This. Fred Miranda did a comparison and even found that the Ultron v2 actually outperforms the Summicron at center and extreme corners for resolution and contrast.

Nobody's comparison is more trustworthy than my own. I don't have any commercial interest.  

Why don't you do it yourself? It's very easy. Buy both, and returned the one you don't like. 

Edited February 28, 2023 by Einst_Stein

[Qlan]

10 minutes ago, Einst_Stein said:

Nobody's comparison is more trustworthy than my own. I don't have any commercial interest.  

Why don't you do it yourself? It's very easy. Buy both, and returned the one you don't like. 

You were putting out statements: "Voigtlander IQ deteriorates quickly towards the edge", "If you don't care much about the edge performance, you'll be fine to drop Leica", I'm just pointing out that this may be your experience but other people did extensive testing and they didn't arrive at the same conclusions as you. So I'm just trying to balance your opinion with others so newcomers won't have the preconception that Voigtlander/other lenses are inferior in corner sharpness.

[Einst_Stein]

12 minutes ago, Qlan said:

You were putting out statements: "Voigtlander IQ deteriorates quickly towards the edge", "If you don't care much about the edge performance, you'll be fine to drop Leica", I'm just pointing out that this may be your experience but other people did extensive testing and they didn't arrive at the same conclusions as you. So I'm just trying to balance your opinion with others so newcomers won't have the preconception that Voigtlander/other lenses are inferior in corner sharpness.

Fair enough, I am just asking if you yourself have compared them. Better yet, post the results you find.

I have. 

Edited February 28, 2023 by Einst_Stein

[Leitz.]

2 hours ago, Einst_Stein said:

Mine was version 2. I am not interested to discuss our different view.  

Whoever interested can just buy from B&H, if not satisfied, returned it. 

This isn’t really an argument. I’m not sure why you’re so aggressive. 

In the end just get whatever lens gets the job done for you. If it’s the Leica then great. What’s important is the photo not the equipment. 

Edited February 28, 2023 by Leitz.

[Leitz.]

29 minutes ago, Einst_Stein said:

Better yet, post the results you find.

I have. 

Please share so we can see. Maybe you had a bad copy. 

[hamey]

3 hours ago, SoarFM said:

That sounds like a great way to save money. I’m much more average. 

I feel the same way, my 2001 Honda is still going strong, never has given me any trouble, what's it worth now probably not much, my latest Leica is the SL2-S Reportage

I paid more money for it then what my beloved Honda CRV is worth.

I have owned Leicas since 1973, the first was the Leicaflex SL still have it, I think I have spent over 50 thousand dollars since then on Leica equipment  after all that's what I enjoy.

As for Mr Leica, I have watched some of his videos on tube and I find him pretty good, it's his choice good luck to him.

Ken.

[hdmesa]

1 hour ago, Einst_Stein said:

Fair enough, I am just asking if you yourself have compared them. Better yet, post the results you find.

I have. 

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1704868/36#16019601

[Einst_Stein]

Take my case as one of the data. Use common sense. To be sure, do your own tests.

You can't post enough data here, especially the data from the parties that might be getting commercial benefits. The photography skill of the publisher is usually irrelevant.

Again, use common sense, when in doubt, evaluate by yourself.  

[Ko.Fe.]

Ok. He is selling Leica lenses because he needs money to buy real estate.

As it was mentioned before, it must be very cheap house.

Even in our boonies selling ten used 50 1.4 or even faster one will bring nothing for downpayment.

To be honest, for his eastern block beauties he could pull it with used Canon 5D mkii and couple of L ef lenses.

[Leitz.]

1 hour ago, Einst_Stein said:

You can't post enough data here

Usually when I start pulling out the microscope and graphs it means I’m really pushing it. 

Your characterization of the Ultron II isn’t my experience. And that’s all there is to it really. Now go shoot and be happy with whatever lenses you have. 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Ouroboros]

Mediocre, hard-up photographer announces he is selling some lenses because he needs some cash.

Heated debate breaks out on a forum between grown-ups about one brand of lenses vs other brands.

Protagonists become increasingly bitter and bent out of shape with each other because their forum-level opinions are being challenged by equally valid forum-level opinions.

Meanwhile, our rosy-cheeked, croaky hand-waving hero without a script is busy planning his next missive about nothing much at all as the forum debate about nothing much at all rages.
Elsewhere,  people are suffering and dying whilst those who will never need to soil their hands scrabbling through rubble in search of their crushed, burnt, murdered and fragmented loved ones wait to be told how to spend their money on nothing much at all.

Call this photography? Something has gone wrong. 

 

[Chris W]

6 hours ago, Ko.Fe. said:

Ok. He is selling Leica lenses because he needs money to buy real estate.

As it was mentioned before, it must be very cheap house.

 

No, that isn't right. First as I said, you only need a decent deposit to get a mortgage (to buy a house). Secondly, if anyone ACTUALLY watched the video, he's just documenting the Leica lenses he's replaced with Voigtlander over a period of time. he isn't selling a bunch of Leica lenses this week. The line about the house is a humorous quip. It's the kind of thing people say to make videos more entertaining. Ig=f he was serious he would also sell his large collection of film cameras, vintage cameras and medium format.