Lightmeter for M6 TTL

[69xchange]

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Agreed, not a hater either. Love the brand, but hate their customer service and quality control.

[CSG123]

When I was searching for a Leica 12-13 years ago, I specifically avoided the M6.  I wanted to find an M3, 2, or 4, because they had no light meters or any electronics.  I grew up in the era of Sunny 16 and hand held meters so I tend to not use light meters in film cameras anyway (though I do buy Wein batteries for my two Olympus OM-1's).  Leicas are, generally, a rich person's game because aside from the initial cost of bodies and lenses, there are situations like a 1600 euro replacement cost for a light meter from a new M6 to be fitted into an old M6.  BTW, I bought an M4 and it's been great all these years (had a CLA before I bought it from Samy's in 2010).  I think I paid $600 for it in 2010.  Other than a ding on the side of the top plate adjacent to the film counter, it is in ridiculously good shape.  At the same time, I bought a CLA'd 1957 5 cm DR with the goggles for about $500.  Great combination!  I still look at modern Leicas but I doubt I'll ever buy one. 

Edited March 13, 2023 by CSGreene

[andrew01]

To be fair buying any 30-40 year old film camera involves some risk.  Most Nikon F2 metering heads will have problems with the metering sensor or ring resistors, which Nikon will not service.  Thankfully there is Sover Wong who remanufactures key parts in the metering circuit. His prices are reasonable, but his waiting list is two years!  I love my M6 classic.

[Huss]

48 minutes ago, andrew01 said:

To be fair buying any 30-40 year old film camera involves some risk.  Most Nikon F2 metering heads will have problems with the metering sensor or ring resistors, which Nikon will not service.  Thankfully there is Sover Wong who remanufactures key parts in the metering circuit. His prices are reasonable, but his waiting list is two years!  I love my M6 classic.

My F2AS needed that ring resistor repair.  I was lucky enough that Sover did it before he became crazy busy.  So my wait was not very long.

But there is a big difference between the F2AS resistor ring failing, and the meter in an M6 failing.  From what I have seen, most F2s now have unreliable meters, if they work at all. Unless you've had someone like Sover repair it.  My DP12 (AS) head needed the repair.  And my older DP11 head needs the repair, but I never did it as the AS head is muchh better.

In contrast, while I know they do exist, I have not see an M6 w a broken meter.

[andrew01]

Sover did my F2AS around two years ago. The wait was around 14 months from first booking it in.  Its a lovely camera despite being a bit of a boat anchor to lug around.  

My experience of M6 meter reliability is a sample of two cameras. Both work perfectly.  I also have an R6.2 with a perfectly working meter (very underrated camera!).

[Anbaric]

On 3/12/2023 at 10:25 AM, jaapv said:

For how long should they stock? Ten years after production end seems reasonable. What would you find acceptable? 20? 50? 100? 
The M9 saga was within ten years of production end. 

The M9 sensors ran out only about 5 years after the last camera that used them, the M-E Typ 220, was replaced. And Leica hastened this at the end by selling reconditioned M9s that were presumably cameras returned under the upgrade programme when their original sensors failed, married to new sensors they might otherwise have kept in stock.

[Helge]

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Am 12.3.2023 um 12:31 schrieb stray cat:

Further to Steve’s point, Leica has been marketing the new M6 as the return of a classic - it reflects badly if they then go and let all the classic classics die when (presumably) fixes for the light meters aren’t technologically impossible. Same for the M6TTL and M7. Is Leica a premium company supporting its products and customers, or isn’t it? If it’s not I dread to think what will be the fate of all their digital cameras that happen to break down after ten years.

From my point of view it is not that simple. If you are using integrated circuits for example, there is a point in time where production stops (for either commercial or technological reasons or just because the manufacturer goes out of business).

At that point there is basically no chance to start production of an identical part somewhere else. The only chance would be to develop a new circuit board based on state of the art components - very expensive and time consuming.

[nrecob]

.

 

Edited June 23, 2023 by nrecob

[JohnnyMartyr]

I know I'm late on this thread but I just happened across it and the discussion was interesting.

I just wanted to point out a few things:

-M6 TTL's in good condition sell for between $3-$4k USD right now.  And a new M6 is about $5k.  If you use an M6 TTL or M7, it is likely because you also shoot digital M and want the continuity of the controls or you believe that the SS dial aids in your particular approach to photography.  Whatever the reason is such users are probably pretty dedicated to this particular model, so to me, spending about half or less than the value of the camera to get a new, warrantied/supported system in it doesn't seem like a terrible deal.  Not saying that the situation wouldn't give me pause personally, but it doesn't sound totally unreasonable.  If it's actually going to be possible anyway!  But I just want to explain my logic because what I see above are people seeing a high figure and dismissing it without much thought.

-In order to fit an M6 top on an M6 TTL, the additional gearing for the reverse shutter speed dial would need to be removed from the M6 TTL.  You see, all that Leica did for the M6 TTL is add a "transmission" to the existing M6 mechanism to get the dial to go the other way.  This is why the height of the camera had to be increased.  The top plate of an M6 TTL is taller than the M6, so no, there would be no way to perform a full top plate/meter replacement without losing the TTL reverse dial.  I imagine that they have to do this because the current meter will not fit around the additional mechanics of the TTL SS dial assembly.  So rather than modify the new part (which they likely outsource as they did with the TTL meter electronics), they want to modify the old part by returning it to it's original M6 style configuration.  This doesn't sound unreasonable from and engineering standpoint but of course eliminates most M6 TTL shooters' reason for choosing this camera and negates any sense in the repair/modification/upgrade.

-To those criticizing Leica's inability to support legacy meters - the thing is, they outsourced them.  If the cameras were accepted more widely and more were purchased, the part would have continued to be produced or stockpiled more appropriately.  But the M6 TTL was only built for three years.  It's a niche model that shares it's proprietary parts with no other Leica, not even the M7.  This is completely different than any comparisons of support for fully mechanical cameras that were produced for a decade completely in house.  I also don't understand the criticism of this model and solution to only use older non-metered models from some quarters.  When the M6 TTL meter dies, you can still use the camera sans meter, just as you would an older model.  But at least, for the time that it's working, you have it, and during that time, it's much more effective in some uses than a separate, non-coupled meter.  That's how I view it anyway.  

-Alan Starkie form Camera Works UK is apparently working on a replacement M6/M6 TTL meter.  As we've seen with other items, sometimes it takes a third party to fill a gap that a manufacturer could not.  The Nikon F2 and Sover Wong's replacement meter parts as also mentioned is a good example.  Nobody seems to be boycotting the F2 yet it was also a premium, handcrafted product during its lifespan.  

-Finally, to the original poster, thank you for sharing your experience and I certainly hope you find a resolution that works for your particular needs!  

[Telemetric]

I sent an email today to know if Leica provides that service now.

I will let you know the answer. 

[Telemetric]

I received the answer from Leica Germany:

thank you for your request.

I do have to inform you, that we had to delay the option to repair or modify Leica M6 and M6TTL cameras to next year approximately.
As the spare parts are not available yet.

We kindly ask for your understanding.

 

 

 

[Huss]

7 hours ago, Telemetric said:

I received the answer from Leica Germany:

thank you for your request.

I do have to inform you, that we had to delay the option to repair or modify Leica M6 and M6TTL cameras to next year approximately.
As the spare parts are not available yet.

We kindly ask for your understanding.

 

 

 

So, that would be a "in your dreams".

[Anbaric]

4 hours ago, Huss said:

So, that would be a "in your dreams".

Isn't 'next year approximately' the standard service time at Wetlzar anyway?

[Huss]

30 minutes ago, Anbaric said:

Isn't 'next year approximately' the standard service time at Wetlzar anyway?

Yes.  Also, if you go to their Wetzlar campus, the bar has a big sign saying "Free beer tomorrow".

They never take it down.

[Telemetric]

We will see.. I don’t think tey will say something is not true….

[hansvons]

22 hours ago, Telemetric said:

I do have to inform you, that we had to delay the option to repair or modify Leica M6 and M6TTL cameras to next year approximately.
As the spare parts are not available yet.

In business, usually this means don't hold your breath but we appreciate your interest. However, the last sentence is unusually precise, saying that missing spare parts are the bottleneck. 

I predict Leica is ramping up their service department considerably, finally understanding the value of services. 

[jakontil]

Honestly i would be suprised if the parts for TTL be available, i dont ask much wont mind losing the flash TTL function as long as the lightmeter is still reparable 

[Telemetric]

On 7/18/2023 at 11:00 AM, jakontil said:

Honestly i would be suprised if the parts for TTL be available, i dont ask much wont mind losing the flash TTL function as long as the lightmeter is still reparable 

What they will do is to convert the TTL to the new M6 changing the visor also. 
 

i don’t mind to lose the TTL. As you said, I want the lightmeter repaired. I will do it because the former owner, who sold me the M6 TTL, pays half of the conversion so is more or less reasonable for me to do it. 
 

[Telemetric]

Next deadline: January 2024.

Let's see.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Anbaric]

15 hours ago, Telemetric said:

Next deadline: January 2024.

Let's see.

Good luck!

If they stick to the timetable, it will be interesting to see how it turns out. Their previous response that mentions a new top plate suggests a pretty complete conversion, so are you also expecting to get the non-TTL style smaller shutter speed dial without reverse gearing etc.?