Lightmeter for M6 TTL

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Just now, Telemetric said:

I hope they will keep my speed dial because the TTL one is bigger and better…

That's a good point. I wonder if that's possible.

[Telemetric]

And one more thing…. Mine is the silver one…. Are they gonna covert it in… black???? 🙈

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3 minutes ago, Telemetric said:

And one more thing…. Mine is the silver one…. Are they gonna covert it in… black???? 🙈

If they do, I hope they give you a matching bottom plate too.

[Telemetric]

I guess they will change only the interior…

[andrew01]

On 3/1/2023 at 3:36 PM, Telemetric said:

I hope they will keep my speed dial because the TTL one is bigger and better…

I suspect not. Looking at picture of M6TTL vs M6 top plates it looks like the distance form the edge of the dial to index mark on the camera is about the same, which would mean that the centre of the shutter dial would need to be further away on the TTL.  It would be interesting to understand how they accommodate the mechanical differences, since M6TTL shutter dial operates in the other direction, perhaps they need to replace the shutter mechanics also?  The only other alternative would be for Leica to remanufacture top plates with M6TTL shape. 

By the time you pay for the new top half of the camera and pay for the other service quote you are paying over €2k.  If it was me I would just sell the TTL in its current condition  and look to buy another M6 in working condition.  Perhaps you can come to arrangement with the seller cover the loss made on the sale.

I personally prefer the M6 classic which has the correct proportions of the classic Wetzlar cameras and the smaller dial which is true to the iconic design.  I understand the argument for the larger dial, but having owned an M6TTL I thought the new dial looked cheaper.  I don’t faff with the shutter speed when the camera is at eye level. I pick a speed suitable for the light and tweak the aperture one or two stops if needed.

 

 

Edited March 12, 2023 by andrew01

[jaapv]

On 2/24/2023 at 8:34 PM, 250swb said:

You’d hope that Leica would stick by M6 owners where the light meter has failed and make some accommodation in pricing since they dodged the warranty because it timed out and in not keeping a sufficient stock of spare parts. But 1600 Euro is a price to put you off because they can’t really be bothered.

Warranty?When was the last M6TTL made?

[250swb]

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54 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Warranty?When was the last M6TTL made?

Does that matter, any warranty ended ages ago? If Leica have run out of spares to repair old light meters they either haven't stocked enough or they've been using them up quicker than planned. Either way I think M6 owners are now beginning to think of the meter in their camera as a ticking time bomb and a potential problem not of their making. Some sensible and open accommodation regarding repair would I'm sure be appreciated, or should owners only expect Leica to service and repair the easy parts of the camera like rangefinders and cogs and gears and ignore the rest? They repaired the M9's sensor and the question when buying one now is always 'has the sensor been changed?', why should the M6 be different?

[jaapv]

For how long should they stock? Ten years after production end seems reasonable. What would you find acceptable? 20? 50? 100? 
The M9 saga was within ten years of production end. 

[Telemetric]

3 minutes ago, 250swb said:

Does that matter, any warranty ended ages ago? If Leica have run out of spares to repair old light meters they either haven't stocked enough or they've been using them up quicker than planned. Either way I think M6 owners are now beginning to think of the meter in their camera as a ticking time bomb and a potential problem not of their making. Some sensible and open accommodation regarding repair would I'm sure be appreciated, or should owners only expect Leica to service and repair the easy parts of the camera like rangefinders and cogs and gears and ignore the rest? They repaired the M9's sensor and the question when buying one now is always 'has the sensor been changed?', why should the M6 be different?

Exactly. Is a high quality cam (or, at least, pretend to be but this is for another thread) so they should have or built the spare parts. 
I own a BMW motorcycle and if you have a classic motorcycle and they does not have the part, the classic department can built it for you. Is very expensive but, at least, you know that you can repair everything. 
 

IMO this is what Leica should do. But is just my opinion and is ok if other forum users don’t agreed. 

[jaapv]

Well, I have a Triumph TR4 and the spare parts come from India. 

[dem331]

Mine still works, but I no longer put a battery inside it. I only use an incident light meter. I approach each analog capture as a small study in photography.  So I shoot about six 36 exp rolls a year. The rest is digital. The rest is digital.

[250swb]

11 minutes ago, jaapv said:

For how long should they stock? Ten years after production end seems reasonable. What would you find acceptable? 20? 50? 100? 
The M9 saga was within ten years of production end. 

Plucking figures out of the air won't solve it, the M2 was nearly thirty years old when the M6 was released and people still talked of Leica's build quality in the same breath when it came to the M6. This is what they expected and Leica did NOTHING to disabuse people buying the M6 that build quality and longevity was going to be any different. If Leica  want to trade on their history they should stand by what they said, not decide after ten years owners can take a flying leap. And I refuse to believe that the electronic components aren't available anymore for the original meters, there are endless examples of older technology still flying, driving, powering guitars, and playing records that can be repaired and upgraded with new 'old' components. It has been used as an excuse by Leica. But now they see a new profit stream lo and behold, problem solved, for ten years?

[dem331]

11 minutes ago, Telemetric said:

Exactly. Is a high quality cam (or, at least, pretend to be but this is for another thread) so they should have or built the spare parts. 
I own a BMW motorcycle and if you have a classic motorcycle and they does not have the part, the classic department can built it for you. Is very expensive but, at least, you know that you can repair everything. 
 

IMO this is what Leica should do. But is just my opinion and is ok if other forum users don’t agreed. 

BMW explicitly excludes electronic components from this program. 

[Telemetric]

2 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Well, I have a Triumph TR4 and the spare parts come from India. 

But at least you can buy them…

[jaapv]

Not all, there quite a few that must be sourced from the second-hand market, especially some chassis and drivetrain parts.

[jaapv]

5 minutes ago, 250swb said:

Plucking figures out of the air won't solve it, the M2 was nearly thirty years old when the M6 was released and people still talked of Leica's build quality in the same breath when it came to the M6. This is what they expected and Leica did NOTHING to disabuse people buying the M6 that build quality and longevity was going to be any different. If Leica  want to trade on their history they should stand by what they said, not decide after ten years owners can take a flying leap. And I refuse to believe that the electronic components aren't available anymore for the original meters, there are endless examples of older technology still flying, driving, powering guitars, and playing records that can be repaired and upgraded with new 'old' components. It has been used as an excuse by Leica. But now they see a new profit stream lo and behold, problem solved, for ten years?

Not really,  ten years is Leica's stated aim for stocking parts, has been for years if not decades. In fact, they got rid of all left-over Barnack and R parts. 

[250swb]

1 minute ago, jaapv said:

Not really,  ten years is Leica's stated aim for stocking parts, has been for years if not decades. In fact, they got rid of all left-over Barnack and R parts. 

I think in industry there's a difference between stocking which is an ongoing process, and stock, which is what you have left. I don't suppose you are suggesting Leica threw out all their stock of M6 light meter parts in 2012, ten years after production stopped, but with nearly 170,000 cameras still 'out there' at the time the spares in stock ran out eight years later by the end of the decade. That must have been a very small stock held in reserve or a pandemic of failures. It's not hard to imagine that by 2020 Leica didn't already have plans for a new M6 so had little incentive to fix the previous problem anyway, everybody can just buy a new one, but isn't it ironic that the new M6 has been hit by faulty parts and a shortage of replacements, spooky how these things come around.

[stray cat]

Further to Steve’s point, Leica has been marketing the new M6 as the return of a classic - it reflects badly if they then go and let all the classic classics die when (presumably) fixes for the light meters aren’t technologically impossible. Same for the M6TTL and M7. Is Leica a premium company supporting its products and customers, or isn’t it? If it’s not I dread to think what will be the fate of all their digital cameras that happen to break down after ten years.

[Telemetric]

I don’t know. I love to shoot my Leicas but I only had problems with all of them. Maybe is bad luck, maybe is because its quality is not premium. I used for years Nikon mechanical cameras, and  I still have and use my Nikon F, F2, F3, FM2n and FM3a and zero problems with them.

In digital, the same. I used for decades Nikon and, now, Sony and I used them a lot (I am a photographer) and all perfect. I bought a Leica M10-P new and I had to send it twice to Leica for different problems, waiting months each time.

I buy a M6 TTL that was completely new, apparently, with not even a little scratch, I send it for a CLA and they say me that the lightmeter is not working well…. and after three months of having my M10-P in Leica for reparation. All together is too much  

Don’t misunderstand me, I love Leica. I love telemetric cameras and the user experience I think is unique but, IMO, they are one of the less reliables cameras of the market nowadays. 

Regarding the lightmeter, I can understand they don’t make lightmeters for old models but I don’t believe that to put the new one in a TTL can’t be done and you have to change all the top… for a lot of money. 

I will do it because the seller pays half of the reparation and, besides, being a photographer means that the invoice can be payed for my company, so I will discount the 19% of VAT, so at the end I will pay for it a bit more than 600€, which is more logical IMO, but imagine that you suffered what I suffered with Leica…

And, still, I want to give a last opportunity to the brand. If my M10-P does not have any problem, I will buy the next P model or the next M12 or whatever they will launch…. but if I have a single problem more, I will sell all my Leica cameras and lenses and I think it will be justified. 

You don’t know me but I care A LOT about my gear. But a lot. And I think is not possible all that bad luck with Leica and just good luck with other camera brands, includind Rolleiflex 2.8 and Hasselblad 500 CM. 

Well, let’s be positive and guess that all will be ok eventually. 

Edited March 12, 2023 by Telemetric

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[Telemetric]

And for the record, I am not a hater and the proof is that I have given to Leica not one or two chances, but three, to demostrate me that is what I though it is. I was in love with M cameras and, I am still am, but all has a limit and I reached mine. Will see. Once again, I hope all will end well at the end and I will become confident again but…. Let’s see. 

Edited March 12, 2023 by Telemetric