New Snapshot 24mm Lens

[pgk]

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Has anybody tried this one: https://chroma.camera/products/double-glass-24mm-f11-m39-mount-lens LTM but easily fitted with an adapter. Prices is very reasonable!

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The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[Ko.Fe.]

Good alternative to MS-Optics and pinholes. 

[pippy]

4 hours ago, pgk said:

Has anybody tried this one: https://chroma.camera/products/double-glass-24mm-f11-m39-mount-lens LTM but easily fitted with an adapter. Prices is very reasonable!

Never heard about it before so thanks, Paul, for the introduction.

The review by Hamish seems quite interesting. £100? For a 24mm lens? In 'Leica-Land' that's almost loose-change found down the back of the settee Chesterfield.

Philip.

Edited February 22, 2023 by pippy

[Ouroboros]

6 hours ago, pgk said:

Has anybody tried this one: https://chroma.camera/products/double-glass-24mm-f11-m39-mount-lens LTM but easily fitted with an adapter. Prices is very reasonable!

If you're looking for a fixed focus p&s wide angle pancake lens, the Chroma Double Glass is the one to get.  I've toyed with the idea for quite a while and have watched Steve Lloyd develop the Chroma Double Glass on his Instagram.

  I have a Keks lens in M mount which is a recycled lens from spent disposable cameras bonded into an m Mount body cap.  It has all the imaging finesse you'd expect from a plastic lens, it's a bit of fun with a Holga vibe and works best on film. 

Given Steve Lloyd's well-known talent for innovation and meticulous R&D, I would expect the Double Glass to perform several levels higher than the Keks lens.   

[250swb]

It looks like a great idea, I'm tempted. I'm a customer of Chroma Camera in the past and they clearly have a talent for carrying interesting projects through to completion.

[LocalHero1953]

I have a Chroma Carbon Adventurer 4x5 camera (excellent), and didn't realise Steve was into lenses as well. He's into interesting projects at affordable prices.

Edited February 23, 2023 by LocalHero1953

[BastianK]

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I have some questions here.
The MTF graph makes absolutely no sense, fullframe corner is at 21.6mm, not 12mm.
Apart from that the MTF look really really bad, how those translate into real pictures can also easily be seen in the sample images at 35mmc.
 

vor 13 Stunden schrieb Ko.Fe.:

Good alternative to MS-Optics and pinholes. 

This is nowhere close to the MS-Optics 24mm 2.0 stopped down, which is fully usable at f/11 even in the very corners (on film and digital btw).

This 24mm f/11 is barely better than a pinhole lens.

Edited February 23, 2023 by BastianK

[250swb]

58 minutes ago, BastianK said:

Apart from that the MTF look really really bad, how those translate into real pictures can also easily be seen in the sample images at 35mmc.

I think both sets of sample images look pretty good, but what do I know, I've never bought a lens based on MTF graphs in my entire life and don't intend to start.

[BastianK]

vor 15 Minuten schrieb 250swb:

I think both sets of sample images look pretty good, but what do I know, I've never bought a lens based on MTF graphs in my entire life and don't intend to start.

Can you please elaborate, what you think looks good here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/hamishgill/52331457773/in/album-72177720301801541/

Only the central part shows even somewhat acceptable image quality and that is on an f/11 lens that cannot be stopped down and is fixed focus. Are we talking about different lenses?

 

Edited February 23, 2023 by BastianK

[Ouroboros]

1 hour ago, BastianK said:

….This 24mm f/11 is barely better than a pinhole lens.

I think a little context is required.  I see it as a lens that I’d use to explore different interpretations and expression than I would use my Leica lenses for.  
Seriously, as a doublet, do you think anyone would buy this lens with the expectation of comparable performance to anything more sophisticated than what it is?
Photography has many facets and mtf can, and should be, the least important reason for choosing an alternative path.

ETA: as you are dismissive of pinhole lenses, take a look around Social Media.  You might discover a completely different skill- and mindset.

Edited February 23, 2023 by Ouroboros

[BastianK]

vor 20 Minuten schrieb Ouroboros:

I think a little context is required.  I see it as a lens that I’d use to explore different interpretations and expression than I would use my Leica lenses for.  
Seriously, as a doublet, do you think anyone would buy this lens with the expectation of comparable performance to anything more sophisticated than what it is?
Photography has many facets and mtf can, and should be, the least important reason for choosing an alternative path.

I notice that already two people try to read things into what I wrote that aren't there, so I am out.
Looking forward to seeing plenty of amazing and price winning pictures taken with this lens.

Edited February 23, 2023 by BastianK

[pgk]

42 minutes ago, 250swb said:

I think both sets of sample images look pretty good, but what do I know, I've never bought a lens based on MTF graphs in my entire life and don't intend to start.

MTF data is probably of most use to lens designers. I am aware that software can generate theoretical MTF charts based on designs wich can then be modified and hopefully improved. The MTF data is just one facet of the lens's performance though. MTF is handy for comparing lenses providing of course that its comparable. Often charts are for different apertures so not overly useful. When buying lenses I do look at MTF data if its available but I don't tend to base my buying decisions on it. I think that somewhere the information about the 'snapshot double glass lens' says that it was originally intended for a square (24mm x 24mm?) format so edges are likely to be 'underdesigned' on full frame 35mm. Possibly a better option might be to crop to square or APS formats?

[250swb]

41 minutes ago, BastianK said:

Can you please elaborate, what you think looks good here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/hamishgill/52331457773/in/album-72177720301801541/

 

 

I have no way to know how the images were scanned or at what resolution, or indeed the competency of the photographer, so what is to be gained, it's impossible to judge.  I also doubt what you and I think is 'good' are the same things. I do often use a Holga and I'm not afraid of a little softness so by that standard the Chroma images are 'good'. However there are two links embedded on Chroma web site that show very nice images made by photographers who should know what they are doing.

Edited February 23, 2023 by 250swb

[BastianK]

vor 4 Minuten schrieb 250swb:

I have no way to know how the images were scanned or at what resolution, or indeed the competency of the photographer, so what is to be gained, it's impossible to judge.  I also doubt what you and I think is 'good' are the same things. However there are two links embedded on Chroma web site that show very nice images made by photographers who should know what they are doing.

This is amazing.
This picture I linked to has been taken by Hamish Mc Gill who you tell me in the same sentence "should know what he is doing".
And the scan resoultion is more than irrelevant. One would need to be blind to not see that the performance outside the central area is abysmal.

But this shows me this is not an objective discussion, just people trying to see what they want to see.

[pgk]

3 minutes ago, BastianK said:

One would need to be blind to not see that the performance outside the central area is abysmal.

In the 1860s J H Dallmeyer introduced the first 'soft-focus' lens and created controversy back then. It seems that the same controversy still exists today. And not all photography  actually requires edge to edge lens performance even today. 

[250swb]

1 minute ago, BastianK said:

But this shows me this is not an objective discussion, just people trying to see what they want to see.

I'm seeing images of a lens that isn't sharp at the edges, so what? Why does that make it a 'bad' lens? For those that use a Noctilux on this forum they usually make images that are mostly out of focus with a sharp centre? Is that a 'bad' lens, or are lenses used to express ideas and feelings and not to be stroked and polished by camera snobs?

[Ouroboros]

49 minutes ago, BastianK said:

But this shows me this is not an objective discussion, just people trying to see what they want to see.

You waded into this thread with no intention of an objective discussion.  All you've done is repeatedly spit venom and scorn on a lens that some photographers will see as an opportunity for creativity where you can't seem see beyond the nose on your face.

You said you were out. Go.

[Danner]

That's rather interesting.  I love the tiny size, especially for a Barnack Leica.  That would be a fun little street-shooter.  Kind of thing where you won't know what you've captured until the negatives are on the light table.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Ko.Fe.]

6 hours ago, BastianK said:

This is nowhere close to the MS-Optics 24mm 2.0 stopped down, which is fully usable at f/11 even in the very corners (on film and digital btw).

This 24mm f/11 is barely better than a pinhole lens.

I have pinhole for film M and M-E 220. 

Saying what f11 lens is barely better than f256 lens sounds no sense at all to me in this regard.   

24/2 needs PP correction for corners color cast on digital.  For 1K+ USD price, I'd rather get something which is not.

Wait, I have 21/4 Color Skopar, they even call is as pancake  and for 1/3 of the price of 24/2, it is wider and if I pay attention to exposure, I don't have to deal with color cast in PP  

[pippy]

5 hours ago, Danner said:

...I love the tiny size, especially for a Barnack Leica.  That would be a fun little street-shooter.  Kind of thing where you won't know what you've captured until the negatives are on the light table...

I was thinking the same thing. I have a Leica 1 and using such a lens as this would, I suspect, be a lot of fun.

Speaking of 'which camera to use with this lens' I thought there were a couple of interesting 'test-beds' within both the original article and Hamish Gill's review. In the former there is an example of the 'Zarya'; essentially a FED-2 without the rangefinder gear so pretty well-known bit of kit.

In Mr. Gill's article, however, I'm intrigued by the Black Paint Leica 1. I'm pretty sure the body is a Repaint of a 1c (not a 1 model C). It is clearly from the 'c' era as it has the tapering flanges running down either side of the lens throat which means that it uses the later construction method. There are, however, a couple of anomalies. First one - if it IS a 1c - is straightforward. Instead of the regular pair of accessory shoes on the top-plate the one nearest the rewind knob has been removed; probably at the repaint stage. The second is more confusing. The 1c didn't have the slow-speed dial. Nor did the IIc. I did wonder if the camera was a IIIc with the top-plate from a 1c swapped-in instead of the rangefinder version but the slow-speed dial on the IIIc had a locking nub top-centre of the rim(*) which this one does't have so is the dial here simply stuck on for visual effect?

I should grab a screenshot of it and post it in the Historic and Collectors sub-forum...

Whatever the story; nice-looking camera!

Philip.

* EDIT : Having just had a check the early IIIc cameras (the model was introduced in 1940) did NOT have the locking nub on the speed-dial; it was only introduced in 1946. These war-era cameras, however, had a few internal components which differed in design from the post-war examples - the advance/rewind lever being one - and, in any case, they tend to be quite sought-after so I would have thought it unlikely that a 'Stepper' would have been cannibalised.

Most curious!

Edited February 23, 2023 by pippy