Do Zeiss M lenses still suffer from 'wobble'?

[Tessar.]

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Good advice from everyone here.  I preferred my 35mm Summarit to the C-Biogon 35mm, it's just a matter of taste really.  I bought the C-Biogon new because it was cheaper and my (silver) copy was fairly stiff and not really very smooth to focus.   Luckily I was able to return it and bought a used Summarit (the older f/2.5 version)  which really liked.  

Recently I bought 25mm and 28mm ZM lenses in black and this time around these are really nice mechanically (bought them new).  Really smooth focus so go figure...  different batches/years/design internally?

I have had a lot of different lenses over the years because I'm a habitual gear changer and like to try lots of different things but without the funds to keep everything I buy.  I found the V1 Summicron ASPH pretty prone to flare if the sun was overhead from 11-1 o'clock.  Especially in bright overcast conditions.  But maybe it was just my copy.  I also found it a bit lacking in character. 

Why not try a 28mm?  The ZM biogon is very good and not much more than the 35/2.8  I've come to prefer to use a 28 as my normal lens rather than 35 and find a 35 too narrow now.

I found the https://www.leicalensesfornormalpeople.com website very lifestyle/hipstery.   There is some good advice in there but the journey to find it isn't very pleasant.  Each to their own I guess.

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[Leitz.]

On 2/21/2023 at 12:00 AM, logan2z said:

I currently have a Summarit 35/2.4 and enjoy the lens but I've been thinking about trying something different.  Call it GAS, curiosity, whatever    The Zeiss Biogon 35mm/2.8 has piqued my interest but the 'dreaded wobble' concerns me.  Has Zeiss ever addressed this issue, or is that still a problem with the latest production ZM lenses?

 

 

  

Why not get a better 35? Or an Ultron? Or save up for a tiny KOB? 
 

My experience with Zeiss is the optics are fine but the build quality is crap compared to Leica. So if you want to try cheap lenses go Voigtlander. 

Edited February 21, 2023 by Leitz.

[logan2z]

1 hour ago, Tessar. said:

W hy not try a 28mm?  

I already have a 28mm Elmarit 2.8 ASPH.  I'm looking at 35s because I like using that focal length on my M2. 

[RexGig0]

My ZM lenses, that I have used, do not wobble: Biogon C 4,5/21mm. Distagon 1,4/35mm. Tele-Tessar 4/85mm.

A recently-acquired, pre-owned 2,8/25mm has yet to be extensively tested.

[Ko.Fe.]

On 2/20/2023 at 12:00 PM, logan2z said:

I currently have a Summarit 35/2.4 and enjoy the lens but I've been thinking about trying something different.  Call it GAS, curiosity, whatever    The Zeiss Biogon 35mm/2.8 has piqued my interest but the 'dreaded wobble' concerns me.  Has Zeiss ever addressed this issue, or is that still a problem with the latest production ZM lenses?

 

 

  

Zeiss had repair service with outlined cost was present on their site in USA.

Don't except anything new, improvements to happen. It is brand sitting in the dusty corner for sometime now. Lenses are made by Cosina Japan, where Vioghtlander branded lenses are also made.

From what I know, you'll get wobble if you use lens really a lot. I managed Vioghtlander Cosina 35 mm lenses to wobble. It required tight lock to fix the issue. With Zeiss wobble goes to worn out materials.  

[Adam Bonn]

I upgraded from the 35/2.4 rit to the 35 cron (latest version)

some of my comments might be example dependant.

+ cron (compared to the rit)

Smaller. (well shorter IIRC)

Far nicer aperture ring

Far nicer focus ring

Sharper in the corners

Less distortion (much less)

- cron (compared to the rit)

The only thing more f**king stupid than that size of the hood is that Leica use the same hood on the 28 elmarit er I mean the summarit hood is smaller and nicer

Flares more

costs a lot more

Overall I don't regret going from the 35 rit to cron... maybe paying the money a bit but that's done now... The cron is nicer in a tactile usage way and the images are technically better, just maybe not worth the money that much better... still when hasn't photography been about diminishing returns as you go up in gear cost?

 

 

[logan2z]

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22 minutes ago, Adam Bonn said:

I upgraded from the 35/2.4 rit to the 35 cron (latest version)

some of my comments might be example dependant.

+ cron (compared to the rit)

Smaller. (well shorter IIRC)

Far nicer aperture ring

Far nicer focus ring

Sharper in the corners

Less distortion (much less)

- cron (compared to the rit)

The only thing more f**king stupid than that size of the hood is that Leica use the same hood on the 28 elmarit er I mean the summarit hood is smaller and nicer

Flares more

costs a lot more

Overall I don't regret going from the 35 rit to cron... maybe paying the money a bit but that's done now... The cron is nicer in a tactile usage way and the images are technically better, just maybe not worth the money that much better... still when hasn't photography been about diminishing returns as you go up in gear cost?

 

 

Thanks, that was a useful comparison.  

Was the lower distortion of the Summicron obvious in normal day-to-day shooting, or was it only apparent when shooting test images?

[Adam Bonn]

8 hours ago, logan2z said:

Thanks, that was a useful comparison.  

Was the lower distortion of the Summicron obvious in normal day-to-day shooting, or was it only apparent when shooting test images?

If you use the adobe profile it corrects the distortion (but away from the centre region the rit edges aren’t as sharp and overall the cron -IMO- has more contrast)

If you use C1 (and no doubt other non-adobe apps) the distortion is noticeable in any image with straight lines

[logan2z]

On 2/22/2023 at 12:54 AM, Adam Bonn said:

If you use C1 (and no doubt other non-adobe apps) the distortion is noticeable in any image with straight lines

I don't notice any obvious distortion in images I've shot with the Summarit that contain straight lines.  I am shooting film exclusively, FWIW, and not using any specific lens profile in Lightroom.  I've wet printed some of these images in my darkroom and don't notice any issues in those prints either.

[Adam Bonn]

2.5 or 2.4?

Well they’re there on digital with 2.4

Edited February 24, 2023 by Adam Bonn

[logan2z]

8 minutes ago, Adam Bonn said:

2.5 or 2.4?

Well they’re there on digital with 2.4

2.4

[haikos]

I have Biogon 2/35 (bought used although top mint condition), and C sonnar 50mm (bought new). Neither have this "wobble" I have read about. Doesn't mean it doesn't exist in other lenses but just my experience with mine.

[BradS]

I have three Zeiss ZM lenses (50mm Planar, 35mm Biogon and 28mm Biogon).  All are fabulous. None exhibit any sign or hint of "focus wobble". I really cannot imagine how badly one would have to abuse a ZM lens to induce "focus wobble".  Not saying it doesn't happen but I think there may be more to the issue than simply, "It exist, therefore it wobbles".  It is possible for example, that some folks inadvertently apply torque to the focus ring when mounting the lens - forcing the focus mechanism hard against the infinity stop thereby significantly accelerating wear on the focus mechanism. I think this is fairly likely given that the surface you're supposed to grab when mounting the lens is thin and not easy to grip firmly.  I really don't know....but the Planar, for example performs at least as well as the current Summicron - maybe better as the Planar does not flare so easily - and yet, the Planar can be purchased brand new, in the box, today for $600 ! That less than 1/4 of the price for a new Summicron. Why hesitate? It is a great lens at a very good price.

I have a Planar ZM from ca. 2005 that has been subjected to regular and frequent use (careful use, not abuse) and has no such issue nor any hint of it. So, there's  a 20+ year old counter example.  I do not believe that "focus wobble" is inevitable....and honestly, If it wears out, I'll toss it in the garbage and buy another and still be way ahead. No worries.

Edited February 25, 2023 by BradS

[Ray Vonn]

No wobble here either.

[hmzimelka]

10 hours ago, BradS said:

I have three Zeiss ZM lenses (50mm Planar, 35mm Biogon and 28mm Biogon).  All are fabulous. None exhibit any sign or hint of "focus wobble". I really cannot imagine how badly one would have to abuse a ZM lens to induce "focus wobble".  Not saying it doesn't happen but I think there may be more to the issue than simply, "It exist, therefore it wobbles".  It is possible for example, that some folks inadvertently apply torque to the focus ring when mounting the lens - forcing the focus mechanism hard against the infinity stop thereby significantly accelerating wear on the focus mechanism. I think this is fairly likely given that the surface you're supposed to grab when mounting the lens is thin and not easy to grip firmly.  I really don't know....but the Planar, for example performs at least as well as the current Summicron - maybe better as the Planar does not flare so easily - and yet, the Planar can be purchased brand new, in the box, today for $600 ! That less than 1/4 of the price for a new Summicron. Why hesitate? It is a great lens at a very good price.

I have a Planar ZM from ca. 2005 that has been subjected to regular and frequent use (careful use, not abuse) and has no such issue nor any hint of it. So, there's  a 20+ year old counter example.  I do not believe that "focus wobble" is inevitable....and honestly, If it wears out, I'll toss it in the garbage and buy another and still be way ahead. No worries.

The focus ring doesn't apply torque to a mechanism that wears out. The focus stops are machined ridges int he focus ring, that terminate on steel screws. You need not worry about mounting the lens while grabbing the focus ring. Grabing the optical assembly in front of the focus ring, there where the aperture ring is, thats a different story.

Again, most wobbles I've ever come across, across many brands that share a retaining ring design like most of the Zeiss ZM lenses, come from the retaining ring coming slightly loose.

Also, as mentioned above, insufficient grease in some or all of the helicoids can cause the focus assembly to float unevenly, wobble or even bind slightly when held at an angle. This wobble can be seen by magnifying the Live View feed in a camera and gently changing focus direction back and forth, resulting in the image to shift or jolt slightly when changing focus direction. The optical block is only supported by a pair of brass guides 180º from each other. If the Helicoids are too loose, only grease can help improve this. It's a compromise of how light focus one wants versus how much play or slop is in the system. Zeiss have most often preferred a lighter focus feel over a tight one.

[Bart D]

wobble-less since 2013

[lebanese blonde]

I just got a used 50mm ZM Planar in mint condition for 200€ and i am very happy with it. 
Focusing isn't as smooth as my v4 50mm Summicron but for the money it`s a bargain - without any wobble

 

[Malabito]

On 2/21/2023 at 11:07 PM, Leitz. said:

Why not get a better 35? Or an Ultron? Or save up for a tiny KOB? 
 

My experience with Zeiss is the optics are fine but the build quality is crap compared to Leica. So if you want to try cheap lenses go Voigtlander. 

I think the leica marketing kool-aid has been strong with you or you had bad luck. 

My 35mm zeiss 1.4mm is as good as the leica lenses I had/have, and same I can say about the 21mm 2.8.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Ouroboros]

I have a ZM 50mm c-sonnar f1.5.  

The build quality isn't crap and it doesn't wobble.

[Robert Blanko]

I had the Zeiss 50 Sonnar, the 35/1.4 Distagon and the 18/4 Distagon for years without noticing any wobble issue.

The latter two I sold meanwhile, but for other reasons.

No complaints about build quality.