Leica 35/2 and 50/2 SL ASPH lenses?

[cboy]

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I guess this is what they meant about the L3 collaboration. Panasonic tech with Leica designed optics. I think is much like the controversy surrounding the rebadged 28-70 sigma lens tweaked optically by Leica. But while it looks suspect this is all conjecture as no one can really substantiate the claim. 

Marketing wise it's a good idea since the new asph are a stepping stone to the apo lenses if one feels inadequate or need for perfection. But if the new asph is 85% of an apo then It be hard not to consider the Panasonic, although Leica would of tweaked their lenses to be better corrected.

I do think this will also cater for the video centric side of the SL given the SL3 will be released with PDAF

On a side note the anticipated PDAF will finally open up possiblity of techart adapter to use M lens. And maybe a future SL rangefinder styled camera with a built in AF adaptor to those wanting an EVF-M???

 

 

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[Dex_Keshin]

It's good that Leica releases more lenses, but I am not the target audience for this.

I'm sure these two new lenses will perform better than the Panasonic counterpart, but they feel like those Panasonic M43 lenses slapped with a Leica branding scheme. Yes, they are "Made by Leica". But for me, if I want a Leica camera or lens, I would prefer the authentic "Design & Handmade in Germany" experience all the way, and I'm currently saving money for a second-hand (hopefully save enough for a brand new) APO-Summicron-SL 50mm by the time the next SL camera launches.

Other than that, I just don't understand why Leica doesn't want to put an aperture ring on the SL lenses like it does for M Lenses. Both Sigma and Fujifilm did a good job, and even Sony is heading this trend too.

On the other hand, I wish the L-mount alliance would produce some pancake large aperture lenses for everyday walk around situations, just like the Nikon's 40mm F2. The new Summicrons are still larger than the Nikon.

[SrMi]

11 minutes ago, Dex_Keshin said:

I would prefer the authentic "Design & Handmade in Germany" experience all the way

What's wrong with Leica lenses made in Portugal and Canada? They have excellent reputation.

 

[Dex_Keshin]

2 hours ago, SrMi said:

What's wrong with Leica lenses made in Portugal and Canada? They have excellent reputation.

 

Nothing's wrong, it is just about my preference.

I'm currently happy with my SL2-S & 24-90.

It's not about how I want Leica to be, it's about what I want my Leica gears to be. Of course my preference may change as time goes by.

 

[MediaFotografie]

what is also a bit strange:
these two new Leica lenses are not mentioned at all on dpreview (there is a short thread in the forum); this was quite different for new Leica lenses so far

[Simone_DF]

20 hours ago, cboy said:

I guess this is what they meant about the L3 collaboration. Panasonic tech with Leica designed optics. I think is much like the controversy surrounding the rebadged 28-70 sigma lens tweaked optically by Leica. But while it looks suspect this is all conjecture as no one can really substantiate the claim. 

If it looks like a Sigma, behaves like a Sigma (the focus ring of the 24-70 twists in the opposite direction compared to all other Leica branded zooms), it’s made in Japan and produces images that look like the Sigma, then most likely it’s a Sigma. 
 

For the Panasonics, these have been available for a few years now, way before the L2 announcement, and if you search the forum then you see people claiming they are just ok. Now Leica adds a red badge and a metal barrel to them and magically people scramble to justify it and I’m positive that in the next few weeks the lenses will be upgraded from “just ok”, “good but nothing special” to “these are mind blowing”.
The amazing power of brand loyalty. 

[MediaFotografie]

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…and from macfileos: „The delivery date for these lenses is currently unclear. I had assumed they would be with dealers today, but that is not so.“

so we have to wait for serious reviews…

[Simone_DF]

12 minutes ago, MediaFotografie said:

so we have to wait for serious reviews…

Yeah, can’t wait to see the non-biased-nope-not-at-all Red Dot Forum review

[kobra]

1 hour ago, Simone_DF said:

If it looks like a Sigma, behaves like a Sigma (the focus ring of the 24-70 twists in the opposite direction compared to all other Leica branded zooms), it’s made in Japan and produces images that look like the Sigma, then most likely it’s a Sigma. 
 

For the Panasonics, these have been available for a few years now, way before the L2 announcement, and if you search the forum then you see people claiming they are just ok. Now Leica adds a red badge and a metal barrel to them and magically people scramble to justify it and I’m positive that in the next few weeks the lenses will be upgraded from “just ok”, “good but nothing special” to “these are mind blowing”.
The amazing power of brand loyalty. 

On the 24-70, it would seem that "produces images that look like the Sigma" has been disproven. 

I do agree that it is easy to succumb to GAS, then seek ways to justify it... for example, when you read "it's a small but noticeable difference", etc, it starts to sound like we can get sucked into believing because we want to  

I've seen images of the Pany 50 1.8, and I would also rate many of those images as just ok. I would be disappointed to learn that these new Leica lenses were "just ok". While I do accept the notion that Leica can have multiple quality and price levels of Summicrons (just like for the M series), the M Summicrons seem to rate from very good to excellent. I would expect "very good" from these lenses, and would be disappointed if less than that. 

Brad

[ynp]

I often use my TL lenses on my daughter’s SL2 as a lighter option and I am interested in the two new Summicrons to complement my Leica lineup. I don’t feel angry because Leica decided to introduce less perfect although light glass. I don’t feel bad using third parties lenses , I have nothing to prove to the outsiders. I will be trying to get the 35 mm as soon as I can and I am not going to be ashamed with a Panasonic designed lens in a Leica coat. 
 

yevgeny

[TAFFY]

I was able to try out the lenses at the Leica boutique where I live.  They are indeed smaller and lighter compared to their APO summicron counterparts & the 24-70 zoom. They don't add much weight on the SL2S body which I tested them on -- very nice and compact setups.  Full disclosure: I am not an SL user, I am and M user wanting to get into the SL.

What I noticed about the new lenses:

Fast & Silent AF (single point), light, bitingly sharp wide open, render details really well, some CA, nice bokeh but some onion rings. Compact & light setup on SL2.  That said, subjectively, the APO Summicrons and the 24-70 zoom felt more dense and better built.  I wish I had tested enough to see if it could produce the 3D pop I am accustomed to seeing in some M lenses. 

I also tested the 24-70 Vario Elmarit as I am choosing between getting a prime and a zoom kit.  This lens is and indeed felt much heavier but also sturdier.  From my brief testing I am happy with the results -- sharp (although again, small sample size, but the primes felt a hair sharper) and pleasing bokeh and I was looking for some CA and I did see a little (had to look for it).  The weight of the camera + lens is noticeably & significantly heavier than the new ASPH primes and I feel my hands would get tried with prolonged use. 

On both, they are as sharp as I'd like for my needs -- street, environmental portraiture - these lenses would show every imperfection on faces, strands of hair etc. I don't think you can call them character lenses-- which thankfully, some of my M lenses are.  

In the end, for my specific uses, I'l likely going for the zooms and use my M-lenses.  I have yet to try the APOs. 

 

 

[Kristofferpaulsen]

I shoot with an SL2, own the 24-90, 50 1.4, 90, 90-280 and I am absolutely getting the new 50, and possibly the 35 based on the size and weight alone. I love the 50, but fuck it's huge.. When I'm doing reportagey stuff, having that flailing around on my side while i'm shooting with my second camera (a q2), it worries me.. Shaving off the majority of the weight would significantly reduce fatigue as well. They won't go to 1.4, but honestly who gives a shit. If it's smaller, less intimidating and less likely to knock a small child unconscious when they accidentally get hit by it when they run past me at the same time that I'm spinning around to get a shot, then I'm there. 

[hansvons]

10 hours ago, kobra said:

I would be disappointed to learn that these new Leica lenses were "just ok".

Agreed. That won't happen. And if that'd been a disaster which Leica cannot afford. The 24-70 images are already flatter, show less plasticity than the 24-90 and have a tiny bit less corner sharpness. It's a good 24-70, albeit not what I would say looks like Leica. But it does no harm to the brand and adds considerable value to the system, as it's versatile without the 24-90's heft. It somewhat shows where Leica is heading with its "budget" line's quality bar, and I like it.

 

5 hours ago, TAFFY said:

... bitingly sharp wide open, render details really well, some CA, nice bokeh but some onion rings.

Sounds like a winner to me. Now the question is how it renders faces. We'll find out soon.

[Simone_DF]

15 hours ago, kobra said:

On the 24-70, it would seem that "produces images that look like the Sigma" has been disproven. 

Where?

[LD_50]

14 minutes ago, Simone_DF said:

Where?

The only example I’ve seen is the comparison to the Sigma by Red Dot Forum on YouTube. There are small differences shown, primarily in the corners. Some of the comments made in the video hurt the credibility but images are images and the Leica did look better.

I saw a comparison to the 24-90, also on YouTube where the Leica 24-70 was shown to be sharper. It’s been a while since I viewed it but remember questioning whether it was a focus issue. 

[Simone_DF]

32 minutes ago, LD_50 said:

The only example I’ve seen is the comparison to the Sigma by Red Dot Forum on YouTube. There are small differences shown, primarily in the corners. Some of the comments made in the video hurt the credibility but images are images and the Leica did look better

Thanks, I’ve seen that one but the Red Dot folks have zero credibility, and one review is not enough to me since copy variation is a thing - see your comment about the 24-90. I’m still waiting for a comparison from some more serious reviewer like Sean Reid. 

[Photoworks]

23 minutes ago, Simone_DF said:

Thanks, I’ve seen that one but the Red Dot folks have zero credibility, and one review is not enough to me since copy variation is a thing - see your comment about the 24-90. I’m still waiting for a comparison from some more serious reviewer like Sean Reid. 

Why do you trust Sean Reid so much?

Make you own opinion. I did my test. it is like comparing apple and oranges, they all make juice. 
But the two lenses are not perfect at all focal's, to me is a tossup result. You can go wrong with any of them.

to me they are different tools, I keep both because I sometime need 2.8, and sometime 90mm is more useful ( even if at 90 it is not as good)

[Simone_DF]

4 minutes ago, Photoworks said:

Why do you trust Sean Reid so much?

Make you own opinion. I did my test.

Because there’s no Leica store where I live, I need to take a flight to go to the closest one, so unfortunately I have to rely on reviews first, personal tests later, and it’s a hassle to order, wait for delivery, and send back, so I try to minimise it as much as possible. Since the 24-70 is not a priority for me, I won’t. But I was in London for the weekend, I went to Leica Mayfair yesterday, but they didn’t have the new Crons yet. Shame as I wanted at least to have a look at them in person. 
I do not look only at SR’s reviews, but at a couple more. The difference is that SR has no vested interest like that other guy.  

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[SrMi]

1 hour ago, Photoworks said:

Why do you trust Sean Reid so much?

What I like about Sean Reid is that, unlike many other reviewers, he does not push his opinion onto the reader, nor does he structure the review so that the reader must come to one conclusion.
Even when I disagree with some of his articles, they are often very helpful to read.

Edited February 13, 2023 by SrMi

[ellisson]

Sure would like to see some other reviews, e.g., dpreview or cnet where there are images shown.  I would guess that the Leica Miami crew will post a segment on the ASPH lenses with image comparisons to the APOs.