SL3 Rumors

[SrMi]

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37 minutes ago, Sohail said:

One of the reasons I like the SL is its minimalist and elegant design. The simpler the better. If you want every conceivable feature out there and a gazillion buttons, go for a Sony or a Panasonic. For me, putting a flip screen on an SL body is like putting spoilers on a Rolls Royce. In a sense, part of me thinks that maybe they should go ahead and do that to the SL3. It would make the SL2 range look even better. 

It is similar to the situation with Q2 vs. Q3. Q2 does look nicer, IMO.

[Olaf_ZG]

Regarding the flipscreen, last week I bought an ipad mount in a music store, to connect the ipad to the tripod. As long as the fotos app will keep its connection, it replaces my need for a flipscreen.

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[NicholasT]

1 hour ago, SrMi said:

I do not mind the missing joystick on X2D. Using LCD as a touchpad works fine for me. However, I do prefer a good working joystick to move the focus point

Thanks for the feedback.

I probably should tone down my comments on a function I’ve not personally used!

I find the joystick on SL2 such a natural interface, particularly in terms of moving the focus point, that I considered it almost to be a “best practice” and one that Hasselblad could easily have implemented. 

With possible exception of the joystick, and now with faster processor Hasselblad appears to have taken X2D handling, menus and user experience to another level.

Leica won’t (a shouldn’t) change the user interface in the SL3. While it’s not quite as elegant and intuitive as the X2D’s, it’s far superior to other camera brands, works well and is now consistent across Leica Q, SL and M cameras.

On the other hand I wouldn’t mind seeing modest improvements in the physical dimensions of the SL3.

Reports that the camera may be slightly smaller appear to have caused some consternation among those who believe that this will upset the balance of the camera with zoom lenses etc.

I personally don’t share those concerns. I believe the camera can benefit from a more rounded treatment, somewhat along the lines of the progression from SL to SL2, with the addition of a modest reduction in volume. Modest physical changes are unlikely to change the balance of the camera. Fewer sharp edges should improve the tactile handling of the camera and slightly smaller size may make process of placing and removing camera in smaller camera bags a little easier / smoother. Just my 2 cents.

[NicholasT]

1 hour ago, Sohail said:

One of the reasons I like the SL is its minimalist and elegant design. The simpler the better. If you want every conceivable feature out there and a gazillion buttons, go for a Sony or a Panasonic. For me, putting a flip screen on an SL body is like putting spoilers on a Rolls Royce. In a sense, part of me thinks that maybe they should go ahead and do that to the SL3. It would make the SL2 range look even better. 

I’m in full agreement that aesthetically the Q2 looks better than the Q3 with the introduction of the flip screen.

Where we don’t see eye to eye, is equating the flip screen with all the useless buttons and functions on a Sony or Panasonic.

If ones use case doesn’t include the need for a flip screen then clearly it will appear superfluous and an eyesore. On the other hand for those of us who use our camera in all sorts of unusual angles or at ground level or in challenging scenarios on a tripod, the flip screen is a godsend and one that pales by comparison to the minor aesthetic hit.

I’ve taken photos with my Q3 using the flip screen that I simply could not have taken with my Q2 (example photo attached). Beyond this being a ground level shot there was a wall right behind the camera position so it would have been literally impossible to see the screen or viewfinder without the use of the flip screen. 

I don’t envy the product designers when it comes to issues like this one. Leica is sure to disappoint one camp or the other when the SL3 is introduced.

I totally respect the desire by many SL2 users for no flip screen. Hopefully the counterpoint can be appreciated without equating it to all the gazillion buttons on Sony’s and Panasonics which I personally have no use for or I would have adopted those systems instead and saved a lot of money in the process

 

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Edited January 27, 2024 by NicholasT

[Virob]

While I also dislike multiple buttons scattered all over a camera, if the the SL3 could make use of the empty space on the top left of the SL2 and add an extra multifunctional dial/wheel, or something, I would find that very useful.

[PeterGA]

Just fix the autofocus please - or else.

 

[Stuart Richardson]

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2 hours ago, NicholasT said:

I’ve taken photos with my Q3 using the flip screen that I simply could not have taken with my Q2 (example photo attached). Beyond this being a ground level shot there was a wall right behind the camera position so it would have been literally impossible to see the screen or viewfinder without the use of the flip screen. 

 

 

I understand that a lot of photographers find the flip screen to be necessary, but for the situation you describe Leica Fotos would have worked just fine, at least if you had a smartphone (frankly, I assume that most people with an SL2 will most likely have one). Personally, I do not care that it does not have a tilt screen, but also will not be overly upset if it is added. That said, I do use my SL2 in situations where it is sometimes not easy to see the viewfinder, and I find that Fotos works perfectly well for this. It is not as immediate as a flip screen, but after the wait to connect (30 seconds?) it is actually a lot more versatile as it can be completely detached from the camera and used in any orientation, while also controlling the camera and triggering it. I got the impression that one of Leica's reasons for not focusing as much on a tilting rear screen was that Leica Fotos remote mode could stand in for the function in the majority of cases.

Edited January 27, 2024 by Stuart Richardson

[NicholasT]

1 hour ago, Stuart Richardson said:

I understand that a lot of photographers find the flip screen to be necessary, but for the situation you describe Leica Fotos would have worked just fine, at least if you had a smartphone (frankly, I assume that most people with an SL2 will most likely have one). Personally, I do not care that it does not have a tilt screen, but also will not be overly upset if it is added. That said, I do use my SL2 in situations where it is sometimes not easy to see the viewfinder, and I find that Fotos works perfectly well for this. It is not as immediate as a flip screen, but after the wait to connect (30 seconds?) it is actually a lot more versatile as it can be completely detached from the camera and used in any orientation, while also controlling the camera and triggering it. I got the impression that one of Leica's reasons for not focusing as much on a tilting rear screen was that Leica Fotos remote mode could stand in for the function in the majority of cases.

Stuart, I appreciate the suggestion and agree that the Leica app provides a potential workaround for some situations where a flip screen is called for.

It’s a workaround that I may use more often in the future. That said, it’s not ideal as it adds complexity to the shooting process. Also in some cases, like the one I mentioned, it isn’t practical.

The photo used as an example was taken at the end of the tram line, early in the morning before hordes of tourists normally arrive taking selfies etc. Timing was of the essence as I had to wait for the scene to be clear, get the composition in camera, and take the photo before the tram started moving again. Waiting for the Leica photo app to connect while holding the phone in one hand and trying to compose with the other with the camera at ground level is a feat I didn’t consider. If that was my only available option, I likely would have passed on taking the photo even though I returned to this location with this specific vantage point in mind.

I’ve said my piece and provided a clear example among the many I run into when I’m out shooting. I’m not trying to change anybody’s mind on the subject.  All I’m suggesting is that at least from my perspective equating the inclusion of a flip screen to the proliferation of buttons and dials on a camera is a false equivalency.

As previously indicated, I do not envy the decision Leica’s product management department had to make on this issue. There likely will be a percentage of potential SL3 buyers whose purchase decision will at least partially be influenced by this issue.

If the SL3 doesn't have meaningful upgrades that match up well to my intended use cases, I may just keep my SL2 and save the extra €3000, which at the end of the day may prove to be a blessing in disguise  

Edited January 27, 2024 by NicholasT

[robb]

I use the phone app when I back the camera tight into a wall or corner for interior architecture.  Works well where a flip down screen would not help.  I just wish multishot was possible to trigger from the app.  I’m not aware that it’s possible…

the app is also great for looking like you are on your phone and getting a stealth shot that they don’t pay attention to whether the camera is sitting on a bag or tripod.  So I hope with the sl3 the app gets a few upgrades.  How about just trigger mode… and not worry about importing all the images to the phone?

I have the flip up screen on my Hassy x2d and I’ve really only used it once.  It’s not my thing.  Never will be.  

Robb 

 

[robb]

Faster and solid af-c is badly needed in sl3.  We’ll see…

Robb

[Stuart Richardson]

50 minutes ago, NicholasT said:

Stuart, I appreciate the suggestion and agree that the Leica app provides a potential workaround for some situations where a flip screen is called for.

It’s a workaround that I may use more often in the future. That said, it’s not ideal as it adds complexity to the shooting process. Also in some cases, like the one I mentioned, it isn’t practical.

The photo used as an example was taken at the end of the tram line, early in the morning before hordes of tourists normally arrive taking selfies etc. Timing was of the essence as I had to wait for the scene to be clear, get the composition in camera, and take the photo before the tram started moving again. Waiting for the Leica photo app to connect while holding the phone in one hand and trying to compose with the other with the camera at ground level is a feat I didn’t consider. If that was my only available option, I likely would have passed on taking the photo even though I returned to this location with this specific vantage point in mind.

 

Yes, that is certainly the trade off -- speed and convenience of a tilting screen, vs cleaner design and potentially greater durability. Honestly, I hope they can improve both to the extent that they are seamless. I think comparatively few would object to a tilting screen that was really well integrated and did not add bulk or diminish the design and durability. For example, by sitting flush against the camera and not crowding out buttons so that they have to be moved to where they fall under the hand (this may be more an effect of the small size of the Q3).

At the same time, the biggest problem with the app is the initial connection (and the tendency for it to disconnect if you do not keep both the camera and the phone active). Certainly it could be greatly improved...the ideal would be to have it connect as well as something like airpods do to an iPhone. I am sure there are reasons why it is harder, but hopefully they will overcome them.

Edited January 28, 2024 by Stuart Richardson

[NicholasT]

14 minutes ago, Stuart Richardson said:

I think comparatively few would object to a tilting screen that was really well integrated and did not add bulk or diminish the design and durability. For example, by sitting flush against the camera and not crowding out buttons so that they have to be moved to where they fall under the hand (this may be more an effect of the small size of the Q3).

A well integrated screen that is flush with the camera and not like Q3 would be ideal.

While I clearly favour the practical use of the flip screen on the Q3, I do miss the seamless flush screen of the Q2 with the wonderful curve on side of the camera. 

If both goals could be achieved I suspect it would be a win-win for all concerned. 

Edited January 28, 2024 by NicholasT

[IkarusJohn]

The flip screen on the X2D is an exemplary implementation. 

I like to use it for odd angles, hand held. On a tripod, the Fotos and Phocus Apps are ideal. 
 

[Planetwide]

8 hours ago, Sohail said:

One of the reasons I like the SL is its minimalist and elegant design. The simpler the better. If you want every conceivable feature out there and a gazillion buttons, go for a Sony or a Panasonic. For me, putting a flip screen on an SL body is like putting spoilers on a Rolls Royce. In a sense, part of me thinks that maybe they should go ahead and do that to the SL3. It would make the SL2 range look even better. 

I'll gladly sell you my recently serviced (By Leica Germany) SL2, once my SL3 arrives... 😁

[Sohail]

4 hours ago, NicholasT said:

I’ve said my piece and provided a clear example among the many I run into when I’m out shooting. I’m not trying to change anybody’s mind on the subject.  All I’m suggesting is that at least from my perspective equating the inclusion of a flip screen to the proliferation of buttons and dials on a camera is a false equivalency.

No one is 'equating' the proliferation of buttons to a flip screen. It's a preference for maintaining the minimalist design philosophy of the SL. Doubtless, the buttons and dials on a Sony and Panasonic can be very useful. I should know. I've owned cameras from both brands.

[LBJ2]

I am happy to see some are commenting about using Fotos app on their device as a remote screen. I've been recommending this capability for some time now with both the SL2 and the M11 rangefinder. It can really come in handy. *If you haven't used the Fotos app recently it continues to receive a number of stability, performance and new feature updates, make sure you are on the latest Fotos app firmware. 

Edited January 28, 2024 by LBJ2

[LocalHero1953]

A smartphone and FOTOS are wonderful if you are at a distance or using a tripod. I have no intention of using a SL handheld in one hand and operating a smartphone with my other two hands.

I have no wish for a flip screen on a stills camera for my photography (I like it for video), but I can understand why some people do and why a phone option would not work for their circumstances. 

[Simone_DF]

19 minutes ago, LBJ2 said:

I am happy to see some are commenting about using Fotos app on their device as a remote screen. I've been recommending this capability for some time now with both the SL2 and the M11 rangefinder.  

Can you elaborate on how you operate a M11 handheld while also using the Fotos app? 

You use the smartphone in your left hand, hold the M11 in your right hand... what do you use to align the focus patch in the rangefinder?

Edited January 28, 2024 by Simone_DF

[LBJ2]

3 minutes ago, Simone_DF said:

Can you elaborate on how you operate a M11 handheld while also using the Fotos app? 

You use the smartphone in your left hand, hold the M11 in your right hand... what do you use to align the focus patch in the rangefinder?

E.g., For events, I'll often take over the crowd shots. Just as you described, but with zone focus. 

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[Simone_DF]

3 minutes ago, LBJ2 said:

E.g., For events, I'll often take over the crowd shots. Just as you described, but with zone focus. 

And if you need precise focusing?