SL3 Rumors

[T25UFO]

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54 minutes ago, trickness said:

a 289 Shelby Cobra was "basically" an old British car with a Ford engine stuck in it. Sometimes things are more than the sum of their parts.

I thought a 289 Shelby Cobra WAS an old British car with an even older Ford engine 😂

[trickness]

3 minutes ago, T25UFO said:

I thought a 289 Shelby Cobra WAS an old British car with an even older Ford engine 😂

Those were the basic ingredients yes, but the end result was so much more.

Leica cameras use what, Sony and Panasonic sensors. And yet the cameras are nothing like those in use. Hence the analogy 

Edited May 17, 2023 by trickness

[BernardC]

1 hour ago, trickness said:

For what it's worth, I'm out on the street here in NYC and see plenty of "millennials" shooting with mostly film Leica and old Nikons...Polaroids even. I sometimes see young-ish people using M digital bodies but they're usually mid 30's at least. There are some people using Sony for sure, I have literally NEVER seen a single young person with an SL body in over 2 years of street shooting multiple times a week here. In fact, I've only bumped into maybe 3 other SL shooters during that entire time.

The M is the iconic NYC street photography camera (other than Weegee's Speed Graphic, of course). I suspect that SL owners are more discreet when traveling from place to place.

By the way, millennials are hitting their 40s. Maybe you are thinking of the generation after ("Gen Z")? You can tell them apart because Gen Z have fewer tattoos!

[helged]

2 hours ago, trickness said:

Those were the basic ingredients yes, but the end result was so much more.

Leica cameras use what, Sony and Panasonic sensors. And yet the cameras are nothing like those in use. Hence the analogy 

No. Leica uses tailored made sensors (at least for M, SL and S). 

[Planetwide]

8 hours ago, BernardC said:

I'm not convinced that no other manufacturer has produced similar lenses. Sigma has a 14/2.8. Sony's 20-70 is a response to Panasonic's 20-60. And the 12-24 is said to be soft in the corners at the wide end, meaning that it's effectively no better than competing zooms that start at 14 or 15mm.

My point was that Sony made a big deal about how their "GM" lenses were finally going to make them competitive, but they've been as slow as Leica in expanding their GM range. Their "pre-GM" lenses were mostly famous for the fact that Sony shooters would rather use adapted EOS lenses, so they are still catching-up.

They have some marquee lenses, and some gaps. One can always argue (over a drink) about how one manufacturer's lens line is better than another but, as far as I am concerned, the grass isn't greener on Sony's side of the fence.

Did I miss the Leica 12-24mm, or 20-60mm? The best wide L zoom is the Sigma 14-24mm. Leica, especially given their price point, should be putting out topflight lenses - not rehashing average zooms/primes. The "other" brands are releasing and shipping innovative designs. For example, the Canon 28-70mm F2.0 is a very good lens. Canon just dropped a 100-300mm F2.8 that will match the 90-280mm. Sony's new lenses are also very good. Witness the the Nikon Noctilux in Z mount. Leica could have offered a stellar 100-400mm F4-5.6, but they didn't. I don't buy Leica bodies to use Sigma Lenses.

Leica has concentrated on 28mm-90mm F2.0 Primes in both the M and SL mounts. Where are the F1.4 SL Lenses or the missing SL 21mm & 24mm's?? Even in the M mount, where is the Tri-elmar 16-21mm replacement, how about a 24mm F1.4? They just keep redesigning the already very good 35 & 50mm lenses.

My point is, they need to step up their game. I get it, I love the look of the SL primes, and I want to give them some more of my money, but first they need to start shipping new Leica designed and built lenses. They have customers waiting to buy the 21 & 24mm SL lenses, we have all talked about them ad nauseam. Why they don't build/ship it, even in small quantities is beyond me.

You would think that if Leica is going to let other L mount manufacturers do the heavy lifting in these focal lengths, they would enable lens and in body IBIS. I can't even use Sigma/Panasonic lens IBIS and in body stabilization on my SL2...

I remain hopeful for phase detect, and lens introductions. But vapourware is forcing me to move into another system to get the lenses/AF that I need.

[Planetwide]

4 hours ago, trickness said:

Those were the basic ingredients yes, but the end result was so much more.

Leica cameras use what, Sony and Panasonic sensors. And yet the cameras are nothing like those in use. Hence the analogy 

You might want to look at this:

https://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm#Canon EOS R5,Leica SL2,Leica SL2-S,Nikon Z 9,Panasonic Lumix DC-S1R

[frame-it]

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5 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said:

Is it going to sit on a shelf until next year, with no further development?

well, prolly why they're joking about it

[trickness]

4 hours ago, helged said:

No. Leica uses tailored made sensors (at least for M, SL and S). 

Manufactured by Sony, Panasonic…?

[trickness]

1 hour ago, Planetwide said:

You might want to look at this:

https://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm#Canon EOS R5,Leica SL2,Leica SL2-S,Nikon Z 9,Panasonic Lumix DC-S1R

Why in gods name would anyone want to look at a site called Protons To Photos?

[beewee]

20 minutes ago, trickness said:

Why in gods name would anyone want to look at a site called Protons To Photos?

If you know how to interpret the performance curves, it’s incredibly enlightening and a good predictor of dynamic range and high ISO performance. It also gives insight into the sensor architecture, amplifier/gain structure, and whether the raw data is being manipulated (smoothed) before being saved out to a raw file.

Edited May 17, 2023 by beewee

[trickness]

6 minutes ago, beewee said:

If you know how to interpret the performance curves, it’s incredibly enlightening and a good predictor of dynamic range and high ISO performance. It also gives insight into the sensor architecture, amplifier/gain structure, and whether the raw data is being manipulated (smoothed) before being saved out to a raw file.

I’ll leave that rectal surgery to others, I’d rather look at photo books and take pictures. 
 

And to clarify, my initial comment was in response to somebody saying that a web forum poster said the SL3 would essentially be a repackaged Panasonic. As if that would ever be the case

Edited May 17, 2023 by trickness

[frame-it]

20 minutes ago, trickness said:

 

And to clarify, my initial comment was in response to somebody saying that a web forum poster said the SL3 would essentially be a repackaged Panasonic. As if that would ever be the case

and to clarify i did say the people on the Chinese forum were joking about it.

[trickness]

9 minutes ago, frame-it said:

and to clarify i did say the people on the Chinese forum were joking about it.

Yep! That was what I understood. The problem with this forum is often people don’t bother to go back and read all the previous comments in the thread.

[frame-it]

26 minutes ago, trickness said:

Yep! That was what I understood. The problem with this forum is often people don’t bother to go back and read all the previous comments in the thread.

and they are joking about it because its taking so long to release the Sl3 and other recent lenses were all rebadged

[Planetwide]

4 hours ago, trickness said:

I’ll leave that rectal surgery to others, I’d rather look at photo books and take pictures. 
 

And to clarify, my initial comment was in response to somebody saying that a web forum poster said the SL3 would essentially be a repackaged Panasonic. As if that would ever be the case

It'll be a rebadged Sigma 😂

[beewee]

Looks like I finally found some definitive proof that the M11 uses a variant of the Sony IMX455 sensor. IMX455AQK1 to be exact.  

[helged]

7 hours ago, trickness said:

Manufactured by Sony, Panasonic…?

Search for Towerjazz and  CMOSIS & Leica 😉... Also note that none of the usual suspects make sensors of the size of Leica S (not so strange, since Leica is the only one using 33x44mm sensor), and that the sensor microlens layer used in M-bodies is unique to Leica. I am not fully updated on the type and thickness of the sensor cover glass(es) used, but Leica used to be much more conservative here compared to the major brands. So sensor manufacturer and sensor covering differ, with Leica as an 'outlier'. There are good reasons to believe that SL3 and S4 (and various incarnations of forthcoming Ms) will share sensor technology, but possibly not from the major sensor manufacturers. 

Edited May 18, 2023 by helged

[LeicaR10]

Helged,  +1.  Leica definitely has custom designed and made sensors for its M and S cameras. Leica even stated the S sensor architecture is the basis for the M camera sensor. Frankly and IMO, the senor maker is irrelvant to most photographers that simply want to go take photographs.  r/ Mark 

[Planetwide]

I am pretty sure that the SL2 and the S1R use the same sensor and electronics. The S1R has very slightly sharper output vs the SL2 with L mount lenses. This would make sense, since the lens array on the SL2 required for M lens compatibility would ultimately compromise the image in a small way.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[BernardC]

42 minutes ago, Planetwide said:

I am pretty sure that the SL2 and the S1R use the same sensor and electronics. The S1R has very slightly sharper output vs the SL2 with L mount lenses. This would make sense, since the lens array on the SL2 required for M lens compatibility would ultimately compromise the image in a small way.

They use the same basic 47MP sensor, as does the Q2, but the SL2 has thinner sensor cover glass, a lens array to make it compatible with M lenses, probably different colour filters. The electronics differ between the two cameras. Panasonic uses their Lumix components, while Leica uses components descended from the S camera. That's the whole point of the "L2" collaboration between Leica and Panasonic: they will start using the same family of components going forward. This should avoid some needless duplication of effort in the future.

As far as "sharpness" is concerned, some reviews found the SL2 to have a slight edge. That could be caused by software, or it could be the thinner cover glass. Or it could be imaginary, of course! Frankly, any minuscule difference in acutance at 47MP is probably immaterial. If you need that extra boost of sharpness you should probably invest in a larger format of camera.