M6 2022 - can you set your ISO dial to 400?

[LocalHero1953]

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This is absolute irrefutable proof, if we ever needed it, that Leica has designed new parts and lined up new suppliers for the new M6 compared to the MP.😉

Edited January 30, 2023 by LocalHero1953

[250swb]

18 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

This is absolute irrefutable proof, if we ever needed it, that Leica has designed new parts and lined up new suppliers for the new M6 compared to the MP.😉

The 'M6 dial' on my 2002 MP lines up perfectly so you may be absolutely right, but as we've seen poor assembly may still be suspected, maybe the outer dial needs slackening off and turning a bit on Huss's camera. And before a little bird chirps up, no it shouldn't need to be adjusted, it's poor, very poor of Leica.

[wattsy]

1 hour ago, LocalHero1953 said:

This is absolute irrefutable proof, if we ever needed it, that Leica has designed new parts and lined up new suppliers for the new M6 compared to the MP.😉

I'm not sure proof was ever needed. Leica have a history of making minor changes to parts like the film speed dial and leatherette coverings. Who knows what has changed inside over the years?

The new M6 appears to be a facsimile of the original (even down to the Leitz logo) so I guess Leica needed to go back to an M6 style film speed dial and find an appropriate supplier. Unless Leica has a huge supply of the MP style dial to work through, I wouldn't be surprised if the new M6 dial started to appear on the MP too. That would be a welcome change IMO (notwithstanding the apparent shoddiness of the OP's example) because the MP style dial feels really cheap and has always seemed out of place to me on an otherwise beautiful camera.

[Ouroboros]

2 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said:

This is absolute irrefutable proof, if we ever needed it, that Leica has designed new parts and lined up new suppliers for the new M6 compared to the MP.😉

Possibly, compared to the pre-pandemic MP.  Covid changed many things worldwide.

I don't see why any of this should be a 'thing', though. The three film cameras that Leica now produce are all different enough to present real decision-making options. 

They're all equal in being potential victims of sporadic shit QC and poor workmanship, too, which is the real concern.

[LocalHero1953]

Quote

This is absolute irrefutable proof, if we ever needed it, that Leica has designed new parts and lined up new suppliers for the new M6.😉

I hope no one took my comment seriously - hence the emoji. I have no idea whether the two cameras are identical inside - and I'm not particularly interested. 

[250swb]

6 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said:

I hope no one took my comment seriously - hence the emoji. I have no idea whether the two cameras are identical inside - and I'm not particularly interested. 

Things have gone beyond parody, if your washing machine put holes in your clothes and you couldn’t set the dial to Eco there’d be hell to pay.

[jakontil]

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Looks like another iso dial gate issue

[Huss]

9 hours ago, jakontil said:

Looks like another iso dial gate issue

Can you elaborate?

[jakontil]

Just now, Huss said:

Can you elaborate?

that was meant to being sarcastic, apology for the misunderstanding

[Huss]

Ok, the ISO dial is broken on my new M6. 

An acquaintance with a brand new 2022 M6 just sent me a pic of his.  His lines up correctly.

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Edited February 17, 2023 by Huss

[madNbad]

1 hour ago, Huss said:

Ok, the ISO dial is broken on my new M6. 

An acquaintance with a brand new 2022 M6 just sent me a pic of his.  His lines up correctly.

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Apparently, your camera was assembled during the Leica Park holiday party.  

[beto]

I recently bought a M6TTL in very good condition, but after using a few rolls of film of different sensitivities, 160, 200 and 400, I realized that the arrow printed on the ISO adjustment button does not exactly match the markings with the scale. I told the manager of the store where I bought it in Germany, since he had a one-year warranty. His response was that it's probably a mismatch due to the age of the camera, which was made in 1999. We agreed at least that it didn't affect performance because the exposure meter works perfectly. However, I did not find any sense in the fact that the external wheel had moved, since it is a fixed part, but I also realized that it matched well at ISO 6, but the difference between the arrow and the marks increased slightly, reaching 6400 with a slightly more noticeable difference than in 400, for example. But the knob that sinks and turns to change the ISO is well tuned and fits without any play at each increment.

This is my M6TTL at 400 ISO

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This is a photo of an MP  at 200 ISO( I guess Solm years) taken from Leica Spain web page (same amount of misalignment than in my M6) link: https://leica-camera.com/es-ES/press-images/leica-mp

That is to say, I got the impression that the points where the inner button fits never matched well (I mean "perfectly") with the ISO scale printed on the outer wheel. To satisfy my curiosity, I searched the net and saw several similar examples of M6 classic and TTL cameras. I even saw the exact same mismatch in a marketing photo of a new MP on the Leica Spain page. That is, the problem is verifiable in new cameras as well as used ones, so the mismatch due to use I ruled out. At the same time, I had started an email conversation with Wetzlar customer service who, despite the evidence that it was a fact present in cameras used as new, insisted that it was not a quality control problem during the manufacturing process. That is, for corporate defense, they cannot declare it. Finally I only asked for that, a statement. They obviously didn't and kindly but cynically told me that if I was bothered by the mismatch they could clear the outer wheel with the markings and glue it back in the correct position, as if over the years a non-moving part that is firmly adhered could move, turning.

The camera operates smoothly, but it's not irrelevant, nor a matter of "personal annoyance"; The design of the mechanism and its markings must work accurately from its coincidence with the scale to its contribution in the operation of the exposure meter. I can find that simple precision (it's not more precise or less precise, just precise, unambiguous) in a Japanese camera, many times cheaper and that doesn't rant every time it can about perfection.

[Anbaric]

This must be why the MP ('Mechanical Perfection') was introduced. Other recent Leicas apparently use the less stringent 'Mechanical More or Less Right if you Look at it from an Angle' standard.

Edited June 4, 2023 by Anbaric

[beto]

13 minutes ago, Anbaric said:

This must be why the MP ('Mechanical Perfection') was introduced. Other recent Leicas apparently use the less stringent 'Mechanical More or Less Right if you Look at it from an Angle' standard.

The full camera photo I posted above is from an MP and is just as imperfect in its dial alignment in relation to graduation as an M6. Leica's perfection is a marketing lie, regardless they make good cameras if you turn a blind eye to their flaccidity in quality control. This has a cost that they no longer pay, but since the cameras did not become cheaper, it can be deduced that what they increased was the profit. Oh, sure, and on the other hand, not all, but some of those who buy Leica cameras don't comment much because became luxury items where functionality took a backseat.

[Anbaric]

20 minutes ago, beto said:

The full camera photo I posted above is from an MP and is just as imperfect in its dial alignment in relation to graduation as an M6. Leica's perfection is a marketing lie, regardless they make good cameras if you turn a blind eye to their flaccidity in quality control. This has a cost that they no longer pay, but since the cameras did not become cheaper, it can be deduced that what they increased was the profit. Oh, sure, and on the other hand, not all, but some of those who buy Leica cameras don't comment much because became luxury items where functionality took a backseat.

Let me refer you to post #30.

[250swb]

2 hours ago, beto said:

The full camera photo I posted above is from an MP and is just as imperfect in its dial alignment in relation to graduation as an M6. Leica's perfection is a marketing lie, regardless they make good cameras if you turn a blind eye to their flaccidity in quality control. This has a cost that they no longer pay, but since the cameras did not become cheaper, it can be deduced that what they increased was the profit. Oh, sure, and on the other hand, not all, but some of those who buy Leica cameras don't comment much because became luxury items where functionality took a backseat.

So prove that the meter and ISO is calibrated to an erroneous position and you have a case. But as most likely if Leica calibrated the meter and ISO with the dial very, very slightly offset then it is most likely accurate, and the only thing that wouldn't be accurate is your assumption. I mean, what do you expect to see in the (non existent) EXIF file, 198 ISO instead of 200 ISO, lol. How much of a stops difference is that?

Edited June 4, 2023 by 250swb

[beto]

16 minutes ago, 250swb said:

So prove that the meter and ISO is calibrated to an erroneous position and you have a case. But as most likely if Leica calibrated the meter and ISO with the dial very, very slightly offset then it is most likely accurate, and the only thing that wouldn't be accurate is your assumption. 

NO. That is not what I am supposing, but affirming (post #33): The outer wheel markings do not match the steps where the inner button, advances step by step. There is a mark shift (not ISO vs exposure meter measurement). But furthermore, even if you peel off and re-attach the outer wheel to a "better position" with the marks, they will not match each other either, as this inaccuracy is increased, i.e. the marks on the outer wheel do not correspond 100% to each snap of the adjustment dial. In my case, the first ISO 6 mark matches perfectly and the 6400 mark does not. The delta at intermediate distances, 200, 400, etc is lower than that of 6400.

In other words, yes: the dial very, very slightly offset, a reality against "perfection", that you can try to relativize if you want to soften up. The other thing is that from the data I have collected, it happens in new cameras and in used cameras, so I can "assume" (here I do assume, because the OP refers to a new production M6) that they may have been inaccurate since they left the factory.  Soft quality control, i.e. saving on the cost of quality control. Concealment of the fact. Facts.

 

[logan2z]

Unfortunately, the world is an imperfect place.  This sort of imperfection happens with lots of luxury products.  Here's an example of a hood that is not aligned correctly on a multi-hundred-thousand dollar Ferrari:
 

In the case of the ISO dial on your M6, I would say that the imperfection is very minor - I'm as anal as the next guy and this particular issue wouldn't bother me at all.  Since it does not affect the operation of the camera in any way, I'd suggest you try and forget about the tiny alignment problem and spend your time making pictures with the camera instead.  When/if the camera needs to be serviced, perhaps Leica can address the problem then, if it still bothers you.

[Anbaric]

Perhaps it's one of those deliberate imperfections, like those supposedly introduced into handmade Persian carpets? Or maybe it's de rigueur for all dials in luxury products, like this $10,000 Rolex:

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https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=711258

"I know most people have this issue..."

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[hepcat]

3 hours ago, Anbaric said:

Perhaps it's one of those deliberate imperfections, like those supposedly introduced into handmade Persian carpets? Or maybe it's de rigueur for all dials in luxury products, like this $10,000 Rolex:

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Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=711258

"I know most people have this issue..."

The very definition of "milspec" (built to military specifications...)   "Measured with a micrometer, marked with chalk, and cut with an axe."

Having read the entire thread, I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry.   On one hand, I understand the desire for precise operating controls on a $5,000 camera.  On the other, I also know that it makes absolutely no difference in the end results of images for the operation of the dial to be set at 320, 400, or 500 ISO.

First world problems, I guess. 

And as an afterthought,  my then-$120 Seiko's dial is also ever so slightly off at 12:00, and has been so since I bought it in 1978.  It pleases me no end to see that Rolex hasn't mastered the issue at $10k either.  Lol