I can repeatedly reproduce overexposure now

[jqian6]

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I don't know if it's a bug or it's just me using the camera in a wrong way, but I can reproduce the overexposure almost 100% every time. I think I will just lay out the use case here to let you guys judge.

It's the latest firmware 1.6, with Sandisk Extreme UHS-I 170m/s, shooting DNG+JPEG in SD first and then IN.

The shooting mode is Single, The exposure mode is Aperture priority, Auto-ISO, max to 3200, Shutter speed to 1/4f, Auto-review is off, LV is off (shooting via OVF), metering is center.

When in playback mode, I am viewing the pictures and then I decide to take another picture by half-press the release button and hold it, the LCD screen with picture was off, and then I fully depress and release the shutter button, the picture is taken but it's over exposed. It maxes to ISO3200 with Shutter somewhere around 1/16 s.

In above scenario, still in playback mode viewing the picture, if I half press the release button and the LCD is off, I then release the button without taking the picture, but then depress the button fully, the picture is taken at normal exposure.

My theory about this is that the shutter release button is acting as the way to take the camera out of the playback, but of course also as taking the picture, but these two functions can not be taken at the same time. It has to be one step at time: get out of the playback mode, and then take the picture; not at the same time. Maybe the camera is not metering at all when LCD is displaying a picture? My theory is kind of proved by not being able to reproduce this issue with LV. I think in LV, even with LCD displaying a picture the camera is still metering.

Is it a bug or it's me doing it wrong? I mean, it's not a big deal as long as I can avoid it easily. It's just a nuance.

Edited January 26, 2023 by jqian6

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[Photoworks]

It is a bug, it has gotten better in 1.6 but not fully removed. some days you just need to send out the FW. It probably will be fixed in the Next issue.

You should send the break down to Leica, if you can do a video even better.

[jqian6]

1 hour ago, Photoworks said:

It is a bug, it has gotten better in 1.6 but not fully removed. some days you just need to send out the FW. It probably will be fixed in the Next issue.

You should send the break down to Leica, if you can do a video even better.

Before I do that, anyone else can reproduce this? I just want to see if it's just me or everyone.

[SrMi]

1 hour ago, jqian6 said:

I don't know if it's a bug or it's just me using the camera in a wrong way, but I can reproduce the overexposure almost 100% every time. I think I will just lay out the use case here to let you guys judge.

It's the latest firmware 1.6, with Sandisk Extreme UHS-I 170m/s, shooting DNG+JPEG in SD first and then IN.

The shooting mode is Single, The exposure mode is Aperture priority, Auto-ISO, max to 3200, Shutter speed to 1/4f, Auto-review is off, LV is off (shooting via OVF), metering is center.

When in playback mode, I am viewing the pictures and then I decide to take another picture by half-press the release button and hold it, the LCD screen with picture was off, and then I fully depress and release the shutter button, the picture is taken but it's over exposed. It maxes to ISO3200 with Shutter somewhere around 1/16 s.

In above scenario, still in playback mode viewing the picture, if I half press the release button and the LCD is off, I then release the button without taking the picture, but then depress the button fully, the picture is taken at normal exposure.

My theory about this is that the shutter release button is acting as the way to take the camera out of the playback, but of course also as taking the picture, but these two functions can not be taken at the same time. It has to be one step at time: get out of the playback mode, and then take the picture; not at the same time. Maybe the camera is not metering at all when LCD is displaying a picture? My theory is kind of proved by not being able to reproduce this issue with LV. I think in LV, even with LCD displaying a picture the camera is still metering.

Is it a bug or it's me doing it wrong? I mean, it's not a big deal as long as I can avoid it easily. It's just a nuance.

Half-press locks the exposure to the scene wherever the camera pointed when you reviewed the image. Therefore, apply half-press only when you have framed the shot.

Edited January 26, 2023 by SrMi

[jqian6]

12 minutes ago, SrMi said:

Half-press locks the exposure to the scene wherever the camera pointed when you reviewed the image. Therefore, apply half-press only when you have framed the shot.

Maybe I didn't make myself clear.

I framed the shot, and then half-press under two separate scenarios:

1. LCD is off

2. LCD is on with photo review/playback.

In scenario 2, it's overexposure.

In scenario 1, it's normal exposure.

Are you saying I should not frame the shot when LCD is on with a picture on display?

[SrMi]

31 minutes ago, jqian6 said:

Maybe I didn't make myself clear.

I framed the shot, and then half-press under two separate scenarios:

1. LCD is off

2. LCD is on with photo review/playback.

In scenario 2, it's overexposure.

In scenario 1, it's normal exposure.

Are you saying I should not frame the shot when LCD is on with a picture on display?

It was not clear to me that you keep the camera pointed to the same scene all the time (e.g., on a tripod).

I could not reproduce it with:

• Auto ISO, max 3200, 1/4f
• A mode, single shooting mode
• Metering center-weighted
• LV off (using RF), auto review off
• DNG+JPEG
• no EVF attached

In playback mode (review in LCD), half-press and hold the shutter half-pressed, then take another image. The image is exposed correctly.

[jqian6]

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10 minutes ago, SrMi said:

 

It was not clear to me that you keep the camera pointed to the same scene all the time (e.g., on a tripod).

I could not reproduce it with:

• Auto ISO, max 3200, 1/4f
• A mode, single shooting mode
• Metering center-weighted
• LV off (using RF), auto review off
• DNG+JPEG
• no EVF attached

In playback mode (review in LCD), half-press and hold the shutter half-pressed, then take another image. The image is exposed correctly.

I tried it again, this time I wrote to internal memory only stead of SD card. Everything else stays same.

No overexposure now.

Interesting, then it has something to do with SD card?

[hdmesa]

I think it's typical of not just M but SL cameras as well – overexposure if shutter is depressed before the camera has time to meter the scene. Use of your SD card versus the internal memory may cause a slight time delay, just long enough to miss exposure. On my SL2-S, I can cause overexposure by zooming in to focus, the exposure brightens to the zoomed-in crop, then I immediately press the shutter button, which causes the exposure to be taken exactly as the camera zooms back out and before it can re-meter the full scene again. I have to instead half press the shutter to zoom out, then give the camera about half a second for the exposure to re-meter and "settle" on the right exposure.

Edited January 26, 2023 by hdmesa

[jqian6]

4 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

I think it's typical of not just M but SL cameras as well – overexposure if shutter is depressed before the camera has time to meter the scene. Use of your SD card versus the internal memory may cause a slight time delay, just long enough to miss exposure. On my SL2-S, I can cause overexposure by zooming in to focus, the exposure brightens to the zoomed-in crop, then I immediately press the shutter button, which causes the exposure to be taken exactly as the camera zooms back out and before it can re-meter the full scene again. I have to instead half press the shutter to zoom out, then give the camera about half a second for the exposure to re-meter and "settle" on the right exposure.

I think your explanation is most plausible for now.

I did try it again, either with internal memory or SD. It's not always reproducible anymore. It occurs if I frantically browse through the pictures and all of sudden I depress the release fully to take a picture, that picture is overexposed.

I think you are right that the camera might be busy accessing memory card and not ready to meter the exposure when I press the release.

Well, as I said before this camera taught me a life lesson: be slow, take it easy

[hdmesa]

1 minute ago, jqian6 said:

I think your explanation is most plausible for now.

I did try it again, either with internal memory or SD. It's not always reproducible anymore. It occurs if I frantically browse through the pictures and all of sudden I depress the release fully to take a picture, that picture is overexposed.

I think you are right that the camera might be busy accessing memory card and not ready to meter the exposure when I press the release.

Well, as I said before this camera taught me a life lesson: be slow, take it easy

Yes, I think it may be more of a usability issue and speed/processing issue than a bug. I can also get overexposure on my SL2-S if I'm reviewing a photo on the LCD and press the shutter to both take it out of review mode and to take a photo at the same time.

I think Leica could address the issue by saving the last metered values and always start the metering process at the previous value. They might also need that to time-out so it only remembers the last exposure for about two minutes.

[jqian6]

I am serious, guys, try it, it's kind of fun to torture it.

scenario is: turn on the playback showing a picture, then hold on to one arrow of the pad, the pictures fly through the LCD, at the same time, depress the shutter release button fully taking a picture, and it's over exposed by maximizing the ISO and the shutter speed is about 1/20s.

Now I kind of love to torture it.

[jqian6]

11 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

Yes, I think it may be more of a usability issue and speed/processing issue than a bug. I can also get overexposure on my SL2-S if I'm reviewing a photo on the LCD and press the shutter to both take it out of review mode and to take a photo at the same time.

I think Leica could address the issue by saving the last metered values and always start the metering process at the previous value. They might also need that to time-out so it only remembers the last exposure for about two minutes.

I actually play it with lots of different scenarios. For example, if I view a picture for a quite a while, let's say 10 seconds, and then take the picture, it is a normal exposure.

if I bring on the picture for a short period of time, let's say less than 2 seconds, and then take the picture, it's an over exposure.

This proves your theory again, the camera is busy accessing memory card, not having time to meter the exposure.

Man, it's kind of fun to test it. Leica should pay us to do this thing

[SrMi]

12 minutes ago, jqian6 said:

I am serious, guys, try it, it's kind of fun to torture it.

scenario is: turn on the playback showing a picture, then hold on to one arrow of the pad, the pictures fly through the LCD, at the same time, depress the shutter release button fully taking a picture, and it's over exposed by maximizing the ISO and the shutter speed is about 1/20s.

Now I kind of love to torture it.

“The patient says, "Doctor, it hurts when I do this."
The doctor says, "Then don't do that!”

Seriously, the new metering system may have some race condition as it now involves computations instead of reading an analog sensor.

[jqian6]

Just now, SrMi said:

“The patient says, "Doctor, it hurts when I do this."
The doctor says, "Then don't do that!”

Seriously, the new metering system may have some race condition as it now involves computations instead of reading an analog sensor.

When I have an expensive equipment like Leica, I don't baby it. I use hell out of it to make it worth.

That being said, the testing scenarios I put up here are not practical anyway because usually I don't check the pictures in camera like a maniac, and most of the time I shoot full manual so the metering doesn't even matter.

 

[M11 for me]

I did what you described above and I can not reproduce this. So maybe your camera works diffenently to mine or its not the full explanation yet.

And as I understand it that workflow is not really relevant either. Probably you do not take a picture and then look at it on the LCD and while doing that you hold the camera towards the next sceene and at that same time you halfpress the release button and you take the next shot. 

I write this not to contradict you. I believe what you write. But my point is that your explanation is not valid for all the cameras and the described worklow is not good practice either.

Edited January 26, 2023 by M11 for me

[Photoworks]

3 hours ago, jqian6 said:

Before I do that, anyone else can reproduce this? I just want to see if it's just me or everyone.

for me it was only happing when shooting quickly multiple frames in single mode, with auto ISO and Auto shutter.

[jqian6]

13 minutes ago, Photoworks said:

for me it was only happing when shooting quickly multiple frames in single mode, with auto ISO and Auto shutter.

Yeah as I said it must have something to do writing to SD card making the metering inoperable, either shooting too quick like you did or viewing the pictures too quickly like I did.

It’s a speed/performance issue.

 

[geotrupede]

not sure it is the same issue but I have taken a video of a shutter jump whenever slightly moving between 1/125 and beyond. see here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/grpeq1rkcpujc6i/shutter bug.mp4?dl=0

 

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Hallo,

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[jqian6]

2 minutes ago, Al Brown said:

Where can we see your portfolio?

I don't have a publicly available and well organized portfolio. Most of my pictures are around family members and close friends, and I never post them. And I don't have extra financial means to pay for a model.

I do have some pictures of landscapes, architectures, street shots, but I am being lazy of not post processing them. So they are kind of raw and sitting on my private harddrive.

One day, maybe just maybe when I have time, don't have to work a boring job for money to support this hobby, I will do it.

[frame-it]

2 hours ago, hdmesa said:

overexposure if shutter is depressed before the camera has time to meter the scene

exactly