Sekonic twin mate (or other small meter)

[grahamc]

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3 hours ago, Mute-on said:

I use the L-308. I actually prefer the digital screen and greatly appreciate the ability to very quickly scroll through combinations of aperture and shutter speed on the fly (saves having to calculate them when working quickly).  I tend to use it as an incident meter. 

Good point I’d probably value that feature too. 

Edited January 17, 2023 by grahamc

[grahamc]

3 hours ago, Mute-on said:

I use the L-308. I actually prefer the digital screen and greatly appreciate the ability to very quickly scroll through combinations of aperture and shutter speed on the fly (saves having to calculate them when working quickly).  I tend to use it as an incident meter. 

Serious question because I am new to this but how does your work flow work in such circumstances and in what circumstances would you/we need to know different combinations up front ? Reason is ask is I generally start with a “correct” reading based on, say, a given ISO and aperture. And then if I change one variable (shutter speed / aperture) I then automatically change the other variable to compensate and know I’m still at correct reading that the meter has given me. 
 

or is it perhaps the combo info handy to see what’s feasible eg if f2 gives me a reading of 1/4000 speed shutter then I know quickly I’m never going to get there (presuming a film M) ? 
 

cheers ! 

[grahamc]

2 hours ago, atournas said:

Since you've posted your question in the Leica forum, I take it you're planning to use the ext lightmeter with a Leica camera. My experience (Sekonic meters) shows that, with Leicas, their internally light measurement is more than enough. With film bodies, the film tolerance "covers up" any deviation; with digital, I guess post-processing will do the job.

Thanks. I found recently that in certain scenes using a light meter (an app in my case) that has a feature to “average” certain scenes has given me a better result than I’ve gotten with my own calculations to average a scene (using light meter in M).  
 

The other reason is I’d like to carry the light meter with me when I don’t have a camera, so that I can take readings from certain areas (eg bright side of the street versus sunny side of the street) in order to educate myself about light and hopefully become more automated when using my M and transitioning to different lighting scenarios. Eg I can know without metering that the scene has probably changed 2 stops , etc 

finally , I think it would be very useful for portraiture to be able to use an incident meter 

Edited January 17, 2023 by grahamc

[Mute-on]

5 minutes ago, grahamc said:

Serious question because I am new to this but how does your work flow work in such circumstances and in what circumstances would you/we need to know different combinations up front ? Reason is ask is I generally start with a “correct” reading based on, say, a given ISO and aperture. And then if I change one variable (shutter speed / aperture) I then automatically change the other variable to compensate and know I’m still at correct reading that the meter has given me. 
 

or is it perhaps the combo info handy to see what’s feasible eg if f2 gives me a reading of 1/4000 speed shutter then I know quickly I’m never going to get there (presuming a film M) ? 
 

cheers ! 

Yes it’s being able to access the combo info quickly. If I have the meter in Av at f4 but it gives a shutter speed on 1/4000 (which I don’t have), a couple of clicks on the side button will instant show you the appropriate combination with having to pause and calculate stops. Obviously if my brain is functioning on an optimal level of caffeine I can calculate the change required, but that’s not always my reality. Anyway, I like it and it works for me. Naturally, YMMV. 

[Ouroboros]

2 hours ago, atournas said:

Since you've posted your question in the Leica forum, I take it you're planning to use the ext lightmeter with a Leica camera. My experience (Sekonic meters) shows that, with Leicas, their internally light measurement is more than enough. With film bodies, the film tolerance "covers up" any deviation; with digital, I guess post-processing will do the job.

I agree in part for a ball-park baseline but you need to be aware that with a Leica M the metered area of a scene is quite small and 'changes' with different lenses.  I personally strive to avoid the catch of expecting the 'tolerance' of film or post processing to cope with my exposure errors.  To me it's a bit like approaching a sharp bend at speed with the expectation that the vehicle will carry you safely through rather than your driving skills. 

It's easy enough to figure out what the internal meter is looking at by using the rangefinder patch as a guide*.  For an average reading or a shift up or down from the camera meter,  I meter off something with a suitable tone which might not even be a part of the image.  Otherwise, I'll consult the light meter I happen to have with me at the time which is either a Twin Mate, L308 or L752 for an incident or spot reading.

*Another reason that I won't use simple shoe mounted meters that only read reflected light.  Although I'm sure the Voigtlander meter is correctly calibrated, I  personally wouldn't put much faith in any of those that have appeared more recently from more obscure origins.  

 

Edited January 17, 2023 by Ouroboros

[Mute-on]

Furthermore, all photography scenarios can benefit from an incident meter reading, not just portraiture. If nothing else you can compare your reflective reading (which necessarily depends on how you go about taking it) with the incident reading to better understand how both readings will represent correct exposure. 

[grahamc]

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3 hours ago, madNbad said:

I had both the S and the latest X versions. It’s amazing how much that little meter can do. Sekonic combined all of the features of previously separate models into one meter. Plus it runs forever on a single AA battery.

Mmmm does sound good !

[grahamc]

6 minutes ago, Mute-on said:

Yes it’s being able to access the combo info quickly. If I have the meter in Av at f4 but it gives a shutter speed on 1/4000 (which I don’t have), a couple of clicks on the side button will instant show you the appropriate combination with having to pause and calculate stops. Obviously if my brain is functioning on an optimal level of caffeine I can calculate the change required, but that’s not always my reality. Anyway, I like it and it works for me. Naturally, YMMV. 

Yea true, great. Thanks. This meter sounds nice I will need to look into the the size of it as the Twin mate does look extremely convenient 

 

[grahamc]

2 hours ago, 250swb said:

Although I have a shoe mount meter it's a bit of a pain, especially when I want to use an accessory viewfinder, they never handle well hand held off the camera. But I do have a L-208 and it's been reliable and accurate for many years now. The batteries seem to last for ever and it's just the right size that you feel you've got hold of something but small enough for a pocket. I wouldn't say it's my main meter though, that is an L-308 or a Gossen DigiPro F (I prefer the L-308, again bombproof, reliable, long battery life).

Interesting - another vote for the 308, thanks 

[grahamc]

5 minutes ago, Mute-on said:

Furthermore, all photography scenarios can benefit from an incident meter reading, not just portraiture. If nothing else you can compare your reflective reading (which necessarily depends on how you go about taking it) with the incident reading to better understand how both readings will represent correct exposure. 

Yes great that’s what I’m thinking 

[grahamc]

If anyone is able to post a side by side picture of the 208 and 308 it’d be very much appreciated. As a first light meter perhaps the L-208 is more than adequate.  Size is definitely important as I generally don’t carry a bag, the idea is that this will be comfortably pocketable. 
 

So much positive feedback for the 308 though, that’s clear. thanks again 

Edited January 17, 2023 by grahamc

[Anbaric]

If you don't mind a meter that's a bit bigger than the Digisix etc. (but still very slim and pocketable - they put the incident dome on the top edge) take a look at the Gossen Sixtomat Digital/Sixtomat Flash (not to be confused with their similarly named vintage analogue meters). Nice large, clear display and easy to scroll through the equivalent shutter speed/aperture values for a given EV. Uses an AA battery. One quirk of the original versions is that gradations finer than full stops are given in decimal 1/10 of a stop. In the current versions like the F2 I think you can also use conventional 1/2 and 1/3 stops.

Edited January 17, 2023 by Anbaric

[RayD28]

I have the L-308 and it fits easily easily into a shirt or pant pocket.  The one draw back, and it's probably me, is it's too easy to accidentally put into EV mode.  Then I have to fiddle with the Mode buttons to fix.  Also, there is a a bit of a lag at start up.  

[hepcat]

2 hours ago, Ouroboros said:

I agree in part for a ball-park baseline but you need to be aware that with a Leica M the metered area of a scene is quite small and 'changes' with different lenses.  I personally strive to avoid the catch of expecting the 'tolerance' of film or post processing to cope with my exposure errors.  To me it's a bit like approaching a sharp bend at speed with the expectation that the vehicle will carry you safely through rather than your driving skills. 

It's easy enough to figure out what the internal meter is looking at by using the rangefinder patch as a guide*.  For an average reading or a shift up or down from the camera meter,  I meter off something with a suitable tone which might not even be a part of the image.  Otherwise, I'll consult the light meter I happen to have with me at the time which is either a Twin Mate, L308 or L752 for an incident or spot reading.

*Another reason that I won't use simple shoe mounted meters that only read reflected light.  Although I'm sure the Voigtlander meter is correctly calibrated, I  personally wouldn't put much faith in any of those that have appeared more recently from more obscure origins.  

 

You raise an interesting point...  many folks, particularly those new to photography or who only shoot infrequently,  tend to blindly believe what their averaging reflected meter says, regardless of what the scene is before them.  What a light meter is doing  essentially, is taking the largest area of luminance in its view angle and reporting that as the equivalent of 18% gray and giving the exposure calculation for that brightness level (usually Zone V or VI) as 18% gray.  That is why bright-white snow is typicially under-exposed, and the proverbial black cat in a coal bin is typically over-exposed; both exposed as though they were a middle-gray scene.   That's why a spot meter, an averaging reflected reading, and an incident reading of the same scene may all be different depending on the angle of view of the meter, the meter's sensitivity, and what exactly it's pointed at.  Ideally, if metering off an 18% gray card in the same light, the three readings ought to be identical.  In real life, expect them to be different depending on what the meter "sees" in the scene. 

When using ANY light meter, you have to understand both the characteristics of the emulsion (or sensor) you're using, AND how the meter works, it's angle of view, and what the meter is actually telling you, and then YOU have to adapt that information into setting your camera appropriately for the scene as YOU want it represented.  

Quite honestly, although my L-308B comes along most often in my bag or pocket because of its size and competence, my FAVORITE meter is the last iteration of the Gossen Luna-Pro with the black plastic housing and Zone System range.  It allows me very quickly to assign Zone V or VI to a particular part of a scene, and calculate exposure over the scene quickly in my head.   Someone above said they were getting better results by metering various portions of a scene using an incident meter and then calculating the exposure which is essentially using the Zone System, but doing it the hard way.

 

Edited January 17, 2023 by hepcat

[Aryel]

I use both: the L308S is my main one. I find it much quicker to use than the 208. I keep misplacing it though and the twin mate is the perfect back up for me. So small that it is always in the bag. At the end of the day, you cannot go wrong with either: Twinmate, a bit slower but smaller. L308 larger but faster. If you shoot in dark areas, then the L308 is better in my opinion as it can still meter in darker areas (don't remember the specs).

Both are easily pocketable.

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Edited January 17, 2023 by Aryel

[Pyrogallol]

I use my L-208 meters all the time, usually with the incident cover. The only time the incident meter is wrong is on a dull overcast day when it gives a reading overexposed by about two stops. Probably because there is no direct light to give a difference between incident and direct light.

[madNbad]

6 hours ago, grahamc said:

I like the idea of digisix but read some user reports saying they wish they’d bought the twin mate due to the battery life. The digisix is 3x the price of the twin mate here - do you see any compelling reason to steer toward the digi ?

 

If they were the same price, I would give the Digisix a slight edge due to better overall build quality and a few additional features but it’s not three times better. They are both similar in size and if you don’t need to know the ambient temperature or have a timer and don’t mind the slightly bouncy needle, go with the Twinmate.

Should you decide to give the L-308 a closer look, it really is a lot of meter in a slim package. In ambient light mode, it has a diffuser dome for incident readings, the ability to adjust between full, half and one third stops, offers a wide range of ISO as well as EV. It has a built in flash meter that works either in wired or wireless mode. The X version includes settings for cine and video. In many ways it’s a one and done meter. Accurate, easy to read ad the X version offers backlighting at low EV. It’s a lot more meter than the Digisix for about the same amount of money.

There were two reasons I sold my 308X. First, I like using the L-398, had sold my flash equipment and it wasn’t being used enough. Secondly, it was my contribution to a small repair shop that is just getting started. 

Which ever you choose will give acceptable readings for negative film. In every case there are advantages and trade offs. Whether it’s construction, battery life or overall size. Having owed and used just about every meter mentioned, if I wanted to buy just one, it would be the 308.

Once you get a decent meter, you can adjust myLightmeter Pro to match it. 
 

 

[Fotoklaus]

vor 22 Stunden schrieb grahamc:

Thanks. I found recently that in certain scenes using a light meter (an app in my case) that has a feature to “average” certain scenes has given me a better result than I’ve gotten with my own calculations to average a scene (using light meter in M).  
 

The other reason is I’d like to carry the light meter with me when I don’t have a camera, so that I can take readings from certain areas (eg bright side of the street versus sunny side of the street) in order to educate myself about light and hopefully become more automated when using my M and transitioning to different lighting scenarios. Eg I can know without metering that the scene has probably changed 2 stops , etc 

finally , I think it would be very useful for portraiture to be able to use an incident meter 

That´s why i prefer the Digisix "on the street": One Click and I got all the combinations of time/ aperture due to the EV range dial, without changing menues.

 

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If you press and hold the "M"- Button and pan through your scene, you can read out the difference in lighting directly:

I can do that all, including switching from direct to incident metering, with one hand within seconds.

That´s the reason why my more "advanced" meters stay at home.

[iPacific]

I use the MR4 meter with down voltage BATTERY ADAPTER from Kanto Camera 

And found that it is just an accessories to make the camera more good looking

since I shoot negative film I can metering by my eyes.

And I will use a sekonic L408 while I need an accurate metering. 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[grahamc]

16 hours ago, madNbad said:

If they were the same price, I would give the Digisix a slight edge due to better overall build quality and a few additional features but it’s not three times better. They are both similar in size and if you don’t need to know the ambient temperature or have a timer and don’t mind the slightly bouncy needle, go with the Twinmate.

Should you decide to give the L-308 a closer look, it really is a lot of meter in a slim package. In ambient light mode, it has a diffuser dome for incident readings, the ability to adjust between full, half and one third stops, offers a wide range of ISO as well as EV. It has a built in flash meter that works either in wired or wireless mode. The X version includes settings for cine and video. In many ways it’s a one and done meter. Accurate, easy to read ad the X version offers backlighting at low EV. It’s a lot more meter than the Digisix for about the same amount of money.

There were two reasons I sold my 308X. First, I like using the L-398, had sold my flash equipment and it wasn’t being used enough. Secondly, it was my contribution to a small repair shop that is just getting started. 

Which ever you choose will give acceptable readings for negative film. In every case there are advantages and trade offs. Whether it’s construction, battery life or overall size. Having owed and used just about every meter mentioned, if I wanted to buy just one, it would be the 308.

Once you get a decent meter, you can adjust myLightmeter Pro to match it. 
 

 

Thanks very much @madNbad , all very useful info