Noctilux First Observation and ?

[Bill W]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

When I ordered my Noctilux, I was really intending on just selling it to fund other camera toys. The first problem I encountered with that thinking was when I opened the bax and looked at the lens. I should not have done that because I immediately thought, why woud I want to sell this, I could never be able to justify it later in life. I will let the wife advise me. I told her the reason I bought the Noctilux and let her hold it as well. Her observation was, honey are you sure you can lift this thing with your recent shoulder surgery. I had surgery two weeks ago on my AC joint. I told her it might be painful but I thought I could suffer through the agony. She said well keep it!!! So I put it on the M8 and started snapping. It is true to is nature, difficult to focus in limited light and will take some practice with the long throw on the focusing. When you do get the focus right at f1, it is incredibly sharp and detailed.

Now that it is a keeper, I need to determine if it is back focusing and I need to know what would be a simple test to find out. Can someone point me in the right direction. I can use the ruler method but I need to know how far away should the subject be, tesa at all apertures? Thanks in advance..........

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[gesper]

When I start thinking it is too heavy, I just use my D200 and zoom for a bit and then the M8/Nocti feels light.

[marknorton]

I'm pleased for you that you like the lens; mine has just come back from Solms for the second time and although I can now adjust the focussing ring properly, I might as well not bother because the lens is mis-focussing badly.

 

At first I thought, no, I'm not going to micro-analyse the images, no pixel peeping and just look at the whole image instead and nothing I focussed on is in focus.

 

Here's a test for focussing:

 

Tripod mount the camera, portrait orientation looking down at about 45 degrees onto a piece of graph paper with a thin black line ruled across the page with the lens to black line distance around 1.5 metres.

 

Focus on the black line - using the split image method - and take a picture, first wide-open. You will then be able see from the image where the best focus is and so whether the lens is front or back focussing. Then, without changing the focussing, stop down in steps and see how the best focus moves and then becomes more difficult to determine as the depth of field.

 

You can then repeat for longer camera to target distances, such as a steel rule laid out on the ground.

 

Finally, take an image of an object far away (> 1000 * the focal length) and see whether that is in focus.

 

Let us know how you get on.

[Mark Pope]

Bill,

 

I can't help with the focusing, but I wonder whether an op/tech strap might help with the weight of the camera/lens. They have a neoprene (I think) pad that helps to distribute the weight of the camera.

I've just bought one for my wife for her to use on her EOS350 and 17-85mm zoom, which is a bit of a handful. She's quite pleased with it. It seems to do the job...

 

All the best

[Bill W]

Thanks Mark and Mark. I will look at the strap and try the focusing test this weekend. Since my activities are still somewhat limited, I have plenty of time to test. Unfortunatley my other shoulder will need the same surgery but I must recover the left one before they do the right.

I still have a D200 I can use for weight training...........

[yeungkeefu]

I only bring three len in recently trips to Osaka and Vietnam, Summicron 28 f2 ASPH and Summilux 35mm f1.4 ASPH for day, after magic hour I use Summilux but I still use a lot of Noctilux at night even it is heavy but I just love how it creates the picture style for those blur, color and mood.

[glenerrolrd]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I'm pleased for you that you like the lens; mine has just come back from Solms for the second time and although I can now adjust the focussing ring properly, I might as well not bother because the lens is mis-focussing badly.

 

At first I thought, no, I'm not going to micro-analyse the images, no pixel peeping and just look at the whole image instead and nothing I focussed on is in focus.

 

Here's a test for focussing:

 

Tripod mount the camera, portrait orientation looking down at about 45 degrees onto a piece of graph paper with a thin black line ruled across the page with the lens to black line distance around 1.5 metres.

 

Focus on the black line - using the split image method - and take a picture, first wide-open. You will then be able see from the image where the best focus is and so whether the lens is front or back focussing. Then, without changing the focussing, stop down in steps and see how the best focus moves and then becomes more difficult to determine as the depth of field.

 

You can then repeat for longer camera to target distances, such as a steel rule laid out on the ground.

 

Finally, take an image of an object far away (> 1000 * the focal length) and see whether that is in focus.

 

Let us know how you get on.

Mark I read your posts every day and you obviously really understand the M8 and its issues with focus calibration. My read of your post implies that Leica service never checked your Noctilux. I would assume that you know whether you M8 itself is just off by testing against other bodies and lens combinations. To ask customers to wait months for service and then skip a 5 minute test to verify the lens is properly calibrated just seems stupid. The lens will eventually find its way back to Solms as it too valuable to write off. Who benefits by this sloppy approach to QC? Am I missing something. I sent my Noctilux in for calibartion May 2 and its still in Solms(cost about $1350) . I don t expect it to focus correctly either..doesn t seem to be a prioity.

[fotografr]

Mark I read your posts every day and you obviously really understand the M8 and its issues with focus calibration. My read of your post implies that Leica service never checked your Noctilux. I would assume that you know whether you M8 itself is just off by testing against other bodies and lens combinations. To ask customers to wait months for service and then skip a 5 minute test to verify the lens is properly calibrated just seems stupid. The lens will eventually find its way back to Solms as it too valuable to write off. Who benefits by this sloppy approach to QC? Am I missing something. I sent my Noctilux in for calibartion May 2 and its still in Solms(cost about $1350) . I don t expect it to focus correctly either..doesn t seem to be a prioity.

 

I had Don Goldberg (DAG Repair) work on mine to optimize focusing for f/1.2. He charged $70.

[marknorton]

I feel sure Leica will have checked the lens for focussing accuracy because the focussing mount needed to come apart to fix it. I can see I need to do more work to check it out. Might be the lens is working fine and I just don't like the way it draws.

[rosuna]

Print this:

 

Nikon D70 Focus Chart

 

... and follow the instructions...

[robertwright]

I feel sure Leica will have checked the lens for focussing accuracy because the focussing mount needed to come apart to fix it. I can see I need to do more work to check it out. Might be the lens is working fine and I just don't like the way it draws.

 

the noct is like the pre asph lux wide open only more so. It has a hazy glow around edges. things are "in focus" but not "sharp". The high degree of aberrations I am assuming is what is causing this. On the noct it is almost like there are two images sometimes, the focused image and a hazy larger surrounding image. Stop it down and it tightens up.

 

I compared it and my pre asph lux to a Canon 85 1.2 and summilux 75. For a particular kind of portrait work, (wide open) the canon is "sharper" followed by the 75 lux wide open, the 50 lux and then the noct. But it is sort of an apples to oranges comparison. The 50 really was not long enough for me for portrait work so I did not buy the noct and I can do almost what the noct can do on the lux. Only one stop difference. It was a harder choice between the 75lux and canon 85 1.2, but the frameline issue on the M8 makes it easier to use the canon's unfortunately.

 

I really wanted to like the noct but could not justify the cost compared to the lux I already had. The sample I had focused correctly at least at 1 and 2 meters which is where I would be using it most.

[rosuna]

For a particular kind of portrait work, (wide open) the canon is "sharper" followed by the 75 lux wide open, the 50 lux and then the noct.

 

Did you compare them at f/1.4?

 

The Noctilux, at f/1.0, isn't a typical portrait lens. The look of this lens (considering which I see on samples) on 35mm format is like that of many photograhs taken on medium format cameras (extreme unsharpness just out of the sharper plane).

[robertwright]

Did you compare them at f/1.4?

 

The Noctilux, at f/1.0, isn't a typical portrait lens. The look of this lens (considering which I see on samples) on 35mm format is like that of many photograhs taken on medium format cameras (extreme unsharpness just out of the sharper plane).

 

yeah its a bit apples and oranges, I was comparing them all wide open. so f1.0 vs 1.2 vs 1.4.

 

What I was looking at was the rendering in the center, the place I would have had the eyeballs. The noct is really good tho. Just not what the canon is on center. But image magnification might have had something to do with it, as I said apples to oranges. For me it was not going to do the trick. But I was very sorely tempted to buy it...

 

But no, I did not test the noct at 1.4, does it kick the pants of the 50 pre asph lux?

 

Put it this way, the canon did have a more commercial look:) the noct was all pre-raphaelite beauty...

 

btw please don't tell me I've got it all wrong, then I will have to buy the darn lens!

[rosuna]

But no, I did not test the noct at 1.4, does it kick the pants of the 50 pre asph lux?

 

I don't know for sure. Looking at the MTF graphs, I suppose they are quite similar. Maybe the Slux has more contrast and the Noct is more uniform in all the frame.

 

 

btw please don't tell me I've got it all wrong, then I will have to buy the darn lens!

 

No, I don't know. I have the Summilux-M 75mm, and I am considering now a Noctilux. I like the 75, but I think the Noct could be a bit more versatile due to the additional stop, an easier focusing wide-open (more DoF) and the shorter focal length (you can use shorter exposure times). The look is very different to anything you can do on 35mm format. I would like to be able to get things like this:

 

Flickr: Photos from callaveron

 

or hand held candlelight scenes... using a Noctilux and the M8.

 

.

[robertwright]

The pre asph lux does have more contrast. I have been using it alternating with the canon 85 1.2 and the lux is contrastier. I actually like the softer rendering of the canon, it makes my retouching easier:)

 

Looking at that gallery, I believe the 50 lux could do 90% of that, the Noct is only giving your one more stop, altho it is less contrasty.

 

I agree the 75 lux was difficult to focus quickly with that long throw.

 

It is a lot to pay for one stop over 1.4. Add to that the difficulty focusing and you have a challenge on your hands.

 

That being said, I was very close to buying it myself. Even if it is only the perception of added capability. And yes, I do like that medium format feel.

 

If you like soft contrast, go for the noct. If you want things snappier the 50 lux is better. I haven't used the new asph lux but it appears to be a whole league ahead wide open.

 

edit: you know 4000+ is nothing to sneeze at. The new HPZ3100 is 4000 essentially so you ask yourself, do I want to be making 24" wide prints with my existing equipment, or adding gear?...

[glenerrolrd]

I had Don Goldberg (DAG Repair) work on mine to optimize focusing for f/1.2. He charged $70.

Agree this is a good solution. My Noctilux is one of the original E58 versions . I tested it against a new one and it was soft...so its more than just the calibration.. I ve had it for over 25 years and it was used when I got it. so I expected a pretty thorough CLA would be required. I think I will send DAG my lenses when it comes to fine tuning the set.

[Jamie Roberts]

@ Robert--I think you have the lens characteristics exactly right. I'll throw one more in the mix--between the 75 Lux and the Nocti in terms of "look" is the 80 R lux, one of my very favourite lenses.

 

(if you look at this thread--the two shots I posted--old man and young woman--are both 80 R lux portraits).

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/digital-forum/36403-your-favourite-dmr-pictures-4.html#post382003

 

(BTW--I know all the rules that portrait breaks, and I still love it )

 

But at 1.2 or 1.0, the Nocti has its own charms--absolutely. I can't wait for mine to arrive!

[Eoin]

I have missed the 85L canon so much since moving over to the M system, I had tried with the 75 summicron to reproduce the look but to no avail. Next up was the Nocti, despite the problems with back focus and 2 trips to Solms I have gotten over my initial disappointment and knee jerk reaction to sell and over the past week I'm starting to warm to the lens. I've also become partial to the 75 in the meantime also.

 

I can't say I feel comfortable having to compensate for focus drift using apertures between f:/2 & f:/5.6 but I guess I'll learn over time and do it almost instinctively the more practice I get and the more I understand how this lens behaves at various distances.

 

The fact still remains I can identify my 85L images by eye and still consider that to be the most flattering portrait lens I've ever had the pleasure to use. Time to move on me thinks and make do with the tools to hand.

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[KM-25]

The fact still remains I can identify my 85L images by eye and still consider that to be the most flattering portrait lens I've ever had the pleasure to use. Time to move on me thinks and make do with the tools to hand.

 

I don't think I will ever sell my 85L. I am in the process of getting Nikon lenses for a D3 and in the 85 department, the Nikon and even the Zeiss ZF 85 don't come close to the 85L wide open.

 

The 85L is a practical lens that I have made mega-bucks with. I have yet to see a single image made with a Nocti that speaks to me that I should buy it. All I have ever seen from that lens are static object shots of beer bottles, wine glasses, strange forms in low light, but nothing that would earn a buck.

 

Nocti for $4,000-$5,000? I will most certainly pass. I would spend 3K on a mint used Nikon 58 1.2 Nocti before I spend that kind of money on a Noct. M.

[robertwright]

I have missed the 85L canon so much since moving over to the M system, I had tried with the 75 summicron to reproduce the look but to no avail. Next up was the Nocti, despite the problems with back focus and 2 trips to Solms I have gotten over my initial disappointment and knee jerk reaction to sell and over the past week I'm starting to warm to the lens. I've also become partial to the 75 in the meantime also.

 

I can't say I feel comfortable having to compensate for focus drift using apertures between f:/2 & f:/5.6 but I guess I'll learn over time and do it almost instinctively the more practice I get and the more I understand how this lens behaves at various distances.

 

The fact still remains I can identify my 85L images by eye and still consider that to be the most flattering portrait lens I've ever had the pleasure to use. Time to move on me thinks and make do with the tools to hand.

 

using it on an slr you have the advantage of being able to compose with the out of focus as an element of the picture. It is very hard to do that on a rangefinder. Having instant review helps tho.

Big difference between putting one extra lens in the bag and a whole camera plus lens...this is why I was trying to find a workable way with either the noct or 75 lux. I believe the 75 would have done it, but issues like above, not seeing the out of focus, the frameline issue and long focus throw make it less attractive. I think I could have simply cropped the noct pictures to an equivalent 85mm fov and for certain clients there still would have been ample size for printing. But it is hard cropping a 10mp image compared to giving them a 13mp image. But you know, often they don't know anyway. Darn! now I want the noct again....