M11 Mainboard died - 8.500€ Junk

[Kiwimac]

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I have been to the Linn factory in Scotland and seen the machines that build their circuit boards. They also have a machine that essentially compares the built board to photograph of perfect boards to almost instantly work out whether the board being checked has the correct things in the correct place etc. 

Of course that doesn’t guarantee that the individual components are all fine and there are functionality tests too. 
 

i presume that the boards for such expensive cameras are subject to similar processes of QC?

 Linn hifi is extremely reliable. Each item has a label on it with the name of the individual who assembled it as well. No doubt “John Smith” would be in the boss’s office pretty quickly if his components kept coming back under the 5 year warranty they offer. 

[LocalHero1953]

7 hours ago, Kiwimac said:

Linn hifi is extremely reliable.

This took me 10secs of google searching after reading your post. I am sure if I looked harder on that forum I would find someone comparing Linn unfavourably to Leica.

Edited January 7, 2023 by LocalHero1953

[andybarton]

To be fair, the Linn hardware in that other forum thread is reliable, but their software left a lot to be desired (in 2019).

If I had the money, I’d have no qualms about buying a Linn system.

[ianforber]

I have a Linn Majik DSM and stupidly managed to step on my headphone lead while it was plugged in, thereby snapping its internal connection. As it was outside warranty, the hifi shop I bought it from said that there was a flat £400 fee for returning an item to the Linn factory for repair. He sent it up and Linn returned it fixed and with no charge. Good service even when it wasn’t their fault.

[dpitt]

13 hours ago, Kiwimac said:

I have been to the Linn factory in Scotland and seen the machines that build their circuit boards. They also have a machine that essentially compares the built board to photograph of perfect boards to almost instantly work out whether the board being checked has the correct things in the correct place etc. 

Have been there too, and have also seen they QC every board with a machine than can measure almost every component individually, 4000 measure points in one go. This procedure greatly improves the consistency and DOA rate of there products.

However, it will not prevent the failing of components a few months later. 
IMO, warranty and the service inside and outside of warranty period are key to call any brand truly High End.
And Leica service is one of the best I have ever experienced.
 

[charlesphoto99]

I’ve always considered Leica more Naim than Linn…

[250swb]

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Nobody knows what's failed on the OP's camera, Leica just change out components until it works, it could just as easily have been a bad solder joint that gets re-soldered putting a new board in. Just like car manufacturers nowadays there are no mechanics in your dealers service centre to diagnose a problem and fix it. Instead there are 'fitters' who go through a routine diagnostic service checklist of changing things and when they find the thing that failed they will rarely have the insight to know why it failed.

[Adam Bonn]

When a supplier sub assembly (such as a board component) fails it’s entirely normal to swap out the whole part (or replace the product for the customer)

The defective part would then be junked or returned to the supplier, depending on whatever agreement the manufacturer has with the supplier regarding reimbursement for sub-spec component supply. The factors at play here are generally if the supplier ’accepts’ the manufacturer’s claim of a defective component (which they usually do as the supplier will have agreed to the test that deems their component out of spec as part of the supply agreement) or which of the two parties is contractually obligated to provide environmentally appropriate disposal of the sub assembly.

Quite possibly in sentence:

Hey supplier this sub assembly returns error value abc against agreed test xyz, as per contract this means that you provide and pay ___ we’re sending back the sub assembly for your perusal and disposal 

Now it’s a good twenty years since I worked in quality engineering, but I’d be surprised if that much has changed 

 

[Bberns22]

On 1/6/2023 at 7:26 PM, Kwesi said:

Is there really a story here? You bought an item from a reputable manufacturer that failed. The reputable manufacturer fixed it as new free of charge and returned it to you.

Why do you think spending 8.5k euros on an item puts you in some protected class? Life happens my friend, The M11 is not a piece of junk. I happen to own one and am quite happy with mine as are so many others on this forum.

 

38 pages in the Leica freeze thread, a number of other postings in forums and on YouTube say "yes" there is a story. Just about reaching the point where there is  a clear preponderance of evvidence suggesting the M11 is suffering from widespread  freeze / brick failures.

[Kwesi]

10 minutes ago, Bberns22 said:

38 pages in the Leica freeze thread, a number of other postings in forums and on YouTube say "yes" there is a story. Just about reaching the point where there is  a clear preponderance of evvidence suggesting the M11 is suffering from widespread  freeze / brick failures.

No one, Leica included, is denying that there is an issue. The last responses from the thread you referenced seem to indicate that Leica’s developers are working on it. 

Edited January 19, 2023 by Kwesi

[Photoworks]

2 hours ago, Bberns22 said:

38 pages in the Leica freeze thread, a number of other postings in forums and on YouTube say "yes" there is a story. Just about reaching the point where there is  a clear preponderance of evvidence suggesting the M11 is suffering from widespread  freeze / brick failures.

Yep, always adding to the conversation and spreading negativity more than objectivity. 

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Bberns22 said:

38 pages in the Leica freeze thread, a number of other postings in forums and on YouTube say "yes" there is a story. Just about reaching the point where there is  a clear preponderance of evvidence suggesting the M11 is suffering from widespread  freeze / brick failures.

How has your M11 performed, have you had many freezes? Is it a recent model or did you get it soon after it was released.

[Jeremy Bunting]

My M11 had frequent freeze issues before it died. Leica NJ told me the mainboard needed to be replaced. This was in late-November. No word on when the repair will be completed; I was told the part was out of stock. In the interim, they sent me a "loaner" which I've now had for approximately as long as my actual camera. The loaner never freezes.

[DenverSteve]

On 1/6/2023 at 1:28 AM, andybarton said:

I'm pleased to see that Leica sorted your camera for you.

Electronic components fail - it's a fact of life. I had a Mac that died through a board failure and Apple replaced it under warranty, as Leica have done with you.

Just be grateful you don't have a friend of mine's Audi Q3. Pretty much everything with a wire attached to it has failed and Audi have been woeful in not fixing it. The car is a write-off, even though it looks perfect and has done about 3,000 miles.

Ditto..........

On 1/6/2023 at 5:26 PM, Kwesi said:

Is there really a story here? You bought an item from a reputable manufacturer that failed. The reputable manufacturer fixed it as new free of charge and returned it to you.

Why do you think spending 8.5k euros on an item puts you in some protected class? Life happens my friend, The M11 is not a piece of junk. I happen to own one and am quite happy with mine as are so many others on this forum.

 

and.... Ditto.  

[Stef63]

The OP of this topic never returned or engaged again in this discussion.  Calling a M11 a piece of junk however seems to me a statement you do not make lightly.  Whenever I return to the M11 forum since this was posted and see this topic pop up again in the new posts (and knowing now it all is sorted out) I feel the topic title deserves an added quote telling the problem is “resolved”.