Gigamesh Posted February 1, 2023 Share #921 Posted February 1, 2023 Advertisement (gone after registration) But I had a lot of freezes with coded Leica lenses such as the Noctilux 0.95 50mm latest version, totally new bought from store. Same type of freeze when I used my uncoded Voigtlander 28mm ultron II. I think the freeze is triggered by a cascade of events thats not solely isolated to uncoded/coded lens or internal/external memory or profiles. I think its much worse than us being able to isolate this or that cause. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 1, 2023 Posted February 1, 2023 Hi Gigamesh, Take a look here M11 freeze issues [Merged]. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
lct Posted February 1, 2023 Share #922 Posted February 1, 2023 10 hours ago, hmzimelka said: Lens detection is never really off. Put on a coded lens, then turn camera on and then turn off lens coding. Without switching off the camera, remove the lens and put it right back on. You'll notice the lens coding setting in not on off anymore. Because Leica gives priority to coded over uncoded lenses i guess. But lens detection can be off and stay so at will. The camera must not have a lens profile in memory so better do a camera reset to be sure about that. Then put an uncoded lens on the camera. The status of the lens will then be "uncoded" and will remain so with other uncoded lenses as long as the user does not enter a lens profile manually. Same when lens detection is set to off, except that the status of the lens is not "uncoded" anymore but "off". And again it will remain so (or become "uncoded" if coded lenses have been used in the meantime) as long as the user does not enter a lens profile manually. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qlan Posted February 1, 2023 Share #923 Posted February 1, 2023 18 minutes ago, lct said: Because Leica gives priority to coded over uncoded lenses i guess. But lens detection can be off and stay so at will. The camera must not have a lens profile in memory so better do a camera reset to be sure about that. Then put an uncoded lens on the camera. The status of the lens will then be "uncoded" and will remain so with other uncoded lenses as long as the user does not enter a lens profile manually. Same when lens detection is set to off, except that the status of the lens is not "uncoded" anymore but "off". And again it will remain so (or become "uncoded" if coded lenses have been used in the meantime) as long as the user does not enter a lens profile manually. No, the lens detection module is never off. That's what I've been repeating again and again. If I put Lens Detection to Off, then mount a coded lens, the camera will put Lens Detection back to Auto. How can this happen if the lens detection module is completely disabled? It can't. So that means lens detection is always on and trying to read the code. And I think there's a software bug in there that can make the camera freeze in some situations. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted February 1, 2023 Share #924 Posted February 1, 2023 5 minutes ago, Qlan said: No, the lens detection module is never off. That's what I've been repeating again and again. If I put Lens Detection to Off, then mount a coded lens, the camera will put Lens Detection back to Auto. Leica gives priority to coded over uncoded lenses as suggested above but lens detection can be off and remain so at will. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qlan Posted February 1, 2023 Share #925 Posted February 1, 2023 (edited) 1 minute ago, lct said: Leica gives priority to coded over uncoded lenses as suggested above but lens detection can be off and remain so at will. Do you not understand that “giving priority to coded lenses” mean that lens detection is never truly off? I’m not taking about the “Lens Detection” setting in the menu which is very misleading. Edited February 1, 2023 by Qlan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted February 1, 2023 Share #926 Posted February 1, 2023 2 minutes ago, Qlan said: Do you not understand that “giving priority to coded lenses” mean that lens detection is never truly off? The camera gives priority to coded lenses when one of them is mounted of course but lens detection is and remains (truly? actually?) off as long as any uncoded lens is mounted if no lens profile has been entered manually in the meantime. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qlan Posted February 1, 2023 Share #927 Posted February 1, 2023 Advertisement (gone after registration) Just now, lct said: The camera gives priority to coded lenses when one of them is mounted of course but lens detection is and remains (truly? actually?) off as long as any uncoded lens is mounted if no lens profile has been entered manually in the meantime. Ok my last attempt trying to explain it to you... How does the camera know whether a coded lens is mounted or not since there are no electrical connections? The only thing is can use to determine whether a coded lens is mounted is by using the lens detection module. Do you agree? So at startup, the camera doesn't know whether a coded lens is mounted or not, so the lens detection module tries to read the code. If there is one, great, the camera will correctly know which Leica lens is used. If it cannot detect a code, then it will stay to "Lens Detection Off" or the last lens profile that was entered. Still agree? In my last sentence, "so the lens detection module tries to read the code" means the lens detection module was NOT truly off even though you set it to off. What's so hard to understand? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted February 1, 2023 Share #928 Posted February 1, 2023 2 minutes ago, Qlan said: How does the camera know whether a coded lens is mounted or not since there are no electrical connections? The only thing is can use to determine whether a coded lens is mounted is by using the lens detection module. Do you agree? So at startup, the camera doesn't know whether a coded lens is mounted or not, so the lens detection module tries to read the code. If there is one, great, the camera will correctly know which Leica lens is used. If it cannot detect a code, then it will stay to "Lens Detection Off" or the last lens profile that was entered. Still agree? Did i say the opposite? I was reacting to a post stating that "Lens detection is never really off". It is obviously off in circumstances i described above and it can remain so indefinitely. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qlan Posted February 1, 2023 Share #929 Posted February 1, 2023 Just now, lct said: Did i say the opposite? I was reacting to a post stating that "Lens detection is never really off". It is obviously off in circumstances i described above and it can remain so indefinitely. Hum, no, my whole point is that lens detection is never off, full stop. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted February 1, 2023 Share #930 Posted February 1, 2023 1 minute ago, Qlan said: Hum, no, my whole point is that lens detection is never off, full stop. And my point is lens detection can be off and stay so at will. Never say never . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qlan Posted February 1, 2023 Share #931 Posted February 1, 2023 Just now, lct said: And my point is lens detection can be off and stay so at will. Never say never . If you agree with my explanation of how the lens detection module works (comment #957), how can you say that lens detection can be off and stay off? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted February 1, 2023 Share #932 Posted February 1, 2023 Just now, Qlan said: If you agree with my explanation of how the lens detection module works (comment #957), how can you say that lens detection can be off and stay off? Because it is a fact. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qlan Posted February 1, 2023 Share #933 Posted February 1, 2023 1 minute ago, lct said: Because it is a fact. Wow such a good explanation. I'm sorry but I don't think you understand how this works. Multiple people agree with me. I won't attempt to explain it to you again. Consider this "Lens detection" matter closed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siriusone59 Posted February 1, 2023 Share #934 Posted February 1, 2023 Don't you guys realize that it's just like Schrödinger's cat...it's both off and on at the same time.😉 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted February 1, 2023 Share #935 Posted February 1, 2023 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Qlan said: Wow such a good explanation. I'm sorry but I don't think you understand how this works. Multiple people agree with me. I won't attempt to explain it to you again. Consider this "Lens detection" matter closed. Never let facts ruin a good story . Just kidding @Qlan. I just tried to help you in this instance but i don't want to annoy you in any way . Edited February 1, 2023 by lct Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qlan Posted February 1, 2023 Share #936 Posted February 1, 2023 (edited) 2 minutes ago, lct said: Never let facts ruin a good story . Just kidding @Qlan. I just tried to help you in this instance but i don't want to annoy you in any way . You are only looking at the Lens Detection menu, not trying to understand what is really happening underneath, so your "facts" are wrong. I'm sorry but I have a much better understanding of software and engineering than you. Edited February 1, 2023 by Qlan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted February 1, 2023 Share #937 Posted February 1, 2023 My facts are easy to prove and i can give examples to anyone interested but I don't want to monopolize the floor in this thread, especially since I don't have the problems you're complaining about and I certainly don't have the skills of an engineer. It would be a shame to close this chapter, though, because some of the M11 freezes seem to stem in part from these issues. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qlan Posted February 1, 2023 Share #938 Posted February 1, 2023 1 hour ago, lct said: Because Leica gives priority to coded over uncoded lenses i guess. But lens detection can be off and stay so at will. The camera must not have a lens profile in memory so better do a camera reset to be sure about that. Then put an uncoded lens on the camera. The status of the lens will then be "uncoded" and will remain so with other uncoded lenses as long as the user does not enter a lens profile manually. Same when lens detection is set to off, except that the status of the lens is not "uncoded" anymore but "off". And again it will remain so (or become "uncoded" if coded lenses have been used in the meantime) as long as the user does not enter a lens profile manually. Is that your fact? Do you understand that it doesn't prove that the lens detection module is off? What happens underneath (I'm 99.9% sure) is that it tries to read the code, doesn't find one, and goes back to the previous setting which is Off (or uncoded). So you are seeing that it stays off, but it actually did a lot of work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 1, 2023 Share #939 Posted February 1, 2023 9 minutes ago, Qlan said: Is that your fact? Do you understand that it doesn't prove that the lens detection module is off? What happens underneath (I'm 99.9% sure) is that it tries to read the code, doesn't find one, and goes back to the previous setting which is Off (or uncoded). So you are seeing that it stays off, but it actually did a lot of work. This is correct. Here's an experiment. With the camera fitted with a coded lens turn lens detection off. The display will show off. Without turning the camera off, remove the lens and refit it. The display will then show the fitted lens. So, although lens detection is set to off, it will still detect a coded lens and turn the setting to "auto". Check the manual and this is confirmed...... " The camera will automatically set the correct lens type when a Leica M lens with 6-bit encoding is used. No manual setting will be re- quired. The camera will switch to Auto automatically when an encod- ed Leica M lens is attached, regardless of the original lens setting. " Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted February 1, 2023 Share #940 Posted February 1, 2023 (edited) 53 minutes ago, Qlan said: [...] What happens underneath (I'm 99.9% sure) is that it tries to read the code, doesn't find one, and goes back to the previous setting which is Off (or uncoded). So you are seeing that it stays off, but it actually did a lot of work. You mean when lens detection is set to auto i guess, which is not the most relevant setting for uncoded lenses if you ask me. Would be interesting to know what happens when lens detection is set to off instead. The status of the lens becomes "off" or "uncoded" then and will remain so if i put whatever uncoded lens afterwards. Of course, if i put a coded lens in the meantime, the camera will give priority to the code then. It is a Leica camera, after all, not a Cosina. But if i put another uncoded lens afterwards, the status of the lens will revert to "off" or "uncoded" then, which seems perfectly normal. Edited February 1, 2023 by lct Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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