PDAF likely to replace DFD-CDAF on SL3

[SrMi]

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3 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

The reason for the success of the Z9 is that it's the first pro mirrorless from Nikon specifically designed for sport / wildlife, and photographers who were sitting on the fence, dropped their D5s and D6s and migrated en masse, while the rest of the Nikon folks migrated over time to the various Z6 / Z7 models. 

No one is complaining about the weight because Nikon is also offering lighter models, like the Z6 / Z7, which are in the 600g ballpark vs the 900g of the SL2. Do you want even lighter? They got you covered with the Z50 and ZFC.

Why the exaggeration?

Nikon Z7 II (Body Only): 615g

Leica SL2 (Body Only): 825g

[hdmesa]

20 minutes ago, SrMi said:

Why the exaggeration?

Nikon Z7 II (Body Only): 615g

Leica SL2 (Body Only): 825g

SL2 battery adds 75g but the Z7 II has a magical -15g battery 😂

[SrMi]

17 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

SL2 battery adds 75g but the Z7 II has a magical -15g battery 😂

😂

For the record, SL2 battery is 81g, while Z7's is 78g.

[Simone_DF]

14 hours ago, SrMi said:

Why the exaggeration?

Nikon Z7 II (Body Only): 615g

Leica SL2 (Body Only): 825g

The Z5 is 590g though

[FlashGordonPhotography]

On 12/30/2022 at 11:19 PM, Simone_DF said:

That is fine. No one is expecting Canon or Sony level, but something more reliable than the current AFC performances. I'd be very satisfied with performances similar to the old A7III, for example.

Oh yes they are. An SL3 with anything less than Sony A7RV level AF will be eaten alive by the vloggers pretending to be photographers. Any opportunity to have a crack at the overpriced dentist camera will be taken. Expect many experts to make comment on DPR. Many videos of fat middle aged men running slowly but erratically at the camera.

Doesn’t really matter how good the S2R or SL3 are. They’ve already been judged.

Gordon

[hdmesa]

47 minutes ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

Oh yes they are. An SL3 with anything less than Sony A7RV level AF will be eaten alive by the vloggers pretending to be photographers. Any opportunity to have a crack at the overpriced dentist camera will be taken. Expect many experts to make comment on DPR. Many videos of fat middle aged men running slowly but erratically at the camera.

Doesn’t really matter how good the S2R or SL3 are. They’ve already been judged.

Gordon

Funny, but I think the SL3 will do better than expected due to the inclusion of PDAF. I predict about 90% of the A7RIV eye-AF and tracking. Leica is not unaware of how far behind the SL2 cameras are with continuous AF.

[Simone_DF]

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On 12/31/2022 at 9:39 PM, FlashGordonPhotography said:

Oh yes they are. An SL3 with anything less than Sony A7RV level AF will be eaten alive by the vloggers pretending to be photographers. Any opportunity to have a crack at the overpriced dentist camera will be taken. Expect many experts to make comment on DPR. Many videos of fat middle aged men running slowly but erratically at the camera

Sadly you're right. But like it or not, the vloggers and video folks are a substantial segment of the market, and to gain some much needed market share, Panasonic needs their money too.

[helged]

On 12/31/2022 at 10:30 PM, hdmesa said:

Leica is not unaware of how far behind the SL2 cameras are with continuous AF.

+1.

[Kim Dahl]

On 12/31/2022 at 10:30 PM, hdmesa said:

Funny, but I think the SL3 will do better than expected due to the inclusion of PDAF. I predict about 90% of the A7RIV eye-AF and tracking. Leica is not unaware of how far behind the SL2 cameras are with continuous AF.

If the Leica SL3 reaches the same level as the Sony A7RIV - eye focus - I will be very happy and I will shout online - as loud as I can - that the SL3 is a worthy system for Canon, Sony and Nikon.  
Then, as a photojournalist, I will be able to switch to the Leica SL3 from my Canon R3 😊🙏🏻 (canonR3 and SL2 weigh about the same) - and I will be be able to use my leica M MUCH more in my work. 🙏🏻
And a few SL/TL  Af lenses.
 

I want to try the SL3 so badly - I can hardly wait.

Edited January 2, 2023 by Kim Dahl

[frame-it]

On 1/1/2023 at 6:30 AM, hdmesa said:

but I think the SL3 will do better than expected due to the inclusion of PDAF

assuming Leica actually DO include it in the SL3...

they do have a habit of being a few or more steps behind everyone else and their cameras are usually underpowered processor-wise

[hdmesa]

5 hours ago, Kim Dahl said:

If the Leica SL3 reaches the same level as the Sony A7RIV - eye focus - I will be very happy and I will shout online - as loud as I can - that the SL3 is a worthy system for Canon, Sony and Nikon.  
Then, as a photojournalist, I will be able to switch to the Leica SL3 from my Canon R3 😊🙏🏻 (canonR3 and SL2 weigh about the same) - and I will be be able to use my leica M MUCH more in my work. 🙏🏻
And a few SL/TL  Af lenses.
 

I want to try the SL3 so badly - I can hardly wait.

I don’t expect it to equal the A7RIV, but it may get close enough for many of us. I think those that need every bit of extra speed will stick with Sony, Canon, and Nikon.

[BernardC]

5 hours ago, frame-it said:

assuming Leica actually DO include it in the SL3...

they do have a habit of being a few or more steps behind everyone else and their cameras are usually underpowered processor-wise

That's not necessarily true. Don't forget that the SL was the first mirrorless with a high resolution low-lag EVF, a low-lag shutter, 10 bit video (4 or 5 years before Sony), a high capacity battery (same), a sturdy body shell, proper thermal management, and proper colour science. The SL2 improved on all of these, except for battery capacity. 

Sure, their AF isn't the fastest, but it is arguably the most accurate. They also offer one of the few mirrorless that can be focused manually on moving subjects. 

Of course every flagship camera has USPs, but the SL/SL2 feature list is still impressive now, even though a new generation should come out soon. 

[Stuart Richardson]

Leica held onto manual focus long long past everyone else, not just with the M (remember, Contax came out the the G series in 1994), but with Leica R, which was MF until it was discontinued in 2009. Their primary driver is lens quality, overall image quality and camera design. If they can improve their AF they certainly will, but I doubt they will do it at the expense of anything else. I only really bring this up not to say that they won't improve their AFc, only to point out that AF speed is probably not at the top of Leica's list in terms of engineering priorities. In the S system, for example, they are on record stating that they chose to use a screwdrive AF instead of ultrasonic motors because they did not believe that they could make strong enough and accurate enough motors to design the quality of lenses they wanted to achieve. They prioritized focusing accuracy and lens quality over AF speed. They were finally able to solve the problem roughly ten years later in the SL lenses. My sense is that focusing speed and tracking are a much greater priority in Canon, Nikon and Sony cameras which are all competing in the sports and journalism market, where Leica is not a player (other than a certain kind of reportage/magazine assignment style, mostly with the M system). Hopefully with Panasonic's help they will be able to achieve what they want without compromises. I do think, however, that if your main priority is focusing speed and focusing technology, coming to Leica and then being disappointed it is not as fast as Sony, Canon or Nikon is kind of a caveat emptor scenario.

[Chaemono]

Can’t wait for this guy‘s review of the S5 II video AF.

 

 

[Stuart Richardson]

Oof, that video looks like a total waste of time...I hate these clickbait-y videos. Someone should make a video about how no one should make a video about "leaving a system forever".

[Chaemono]

The video is very prescient.

[sillbeers15]

9 hours ago, Stuart Richardson said:

Leica held onto manual focus long long past everyone else, not just with the M (remember, Contax came out the the G series in 1994), but with Leica R, which was MF until it was discontinued in 2009. Their primary driver is lens quality, overall image quality and camera design. If they can improve their AF they certainly will, but I doubt they will do it at the expense of anything else. I only really bring this up not to say that they won't improve their AFc, only to point out that AF speed is probably not at the top of Leica's list in terms of engineering priorities. In the S system, for example, they are on record stating that they chose to use a screwdrive AF instead of ultrasonic motors because they did not believe that they could make strong enough and accurate enough motors to design the quality of lenses they wanted to achieve. They prioritized focusing accuracy and lens quality over AF speed. They were finally able to solve the problem roughly ten years later in the SL lenses. My sense is that focusing speed and tracking are a much greater priority in Canon, Nikon and Sony cameras which are all competing in the sports and journalism market, where Leica is not a player (other than a certain kind of reportage/magazine assignment style, mostly with the M system). Hopefully with Panasonic's help they will be able to achieve what they want without compromises. I do think, however, that if your main priority is focusing speed and focusing technology, coming to Leica and then being disappointed it is not as fast as Sony, Canon or Nikon is kind of a caveat emptor scenario.

In our generation, upon arguably the 3rd or 4 Industrial Revolution, competition & time to market make or break many makers. Most often than not, many are ‘victim of its own success’. That includes even Canon & Nikon. When I started photography as a teenager, Sigma & Tokina are names to avoid and Leica was on its way to chapter 13. Granted Leica is the leader in optics. Today with computer aided engineering & manufacturing, the advantage would be down to 5% or less. Your words may sound kind to Leica. Customer’s expectations is key to success & failure. Good and reliable autofocus is no longer view as an advantage but rather basic. Let’s not also forget technology changes user habits. Many value results & convenience much more than the process. Anyway Leica is seen as the passive adopter of AF technology while Panasonic is the developer.

[Planetwide]

I agree it's PDAF time for Leica, anything less and they will fall further behind. I am glad to hear that they have received the message. Personally, I am also hoping for a flip screen, preferably identical in movements to the current S1r. Leica also needs to play to their strengths, the body should be carbon fibre, or some sort of carbon matrix, with metal as needed - lens mount etc... It needs to be light, and maintain the Leica minimalistic interface. Given the price, I feel that it needs to be more than just a rebadge from Panasonic.

Lastly, the bottom should be Arca Swiss compatible - built in.

IMHO

[BernardC]

10 hours ago, Planetwide said:

I agree it's PDAF time for Leica, anything less and they will fall further behind. I am glad to hear that they have received the message. Personally, I am also hoping for a flip screen, preferably identical in movements to the current S1r. Leica also needs to play to their strengths, the body should be carbon fibre, or some sort of carbon matrix, with metal as needed - lens mount etc... It needs to be light, and maintain the Leica minimalistic interface. Given the price, I feel that it needs to be more than just a rebadge from Panasonic.

Lastly, the bottom should be Arca Swiss compatible - built in.

IMHO

I agree about having an Arca interface. If not on the camera (where it would add height and weight), then on optional battery packs.

Not sure about carbon fiber. I know it's trendy, especially as a veneer, but it doesn't allow the micron-level accuracy that you need for a precisely engineered camera. That means it could only be use for aesthetics, like on your teenage neighbour's souped-up Civic. Actual weight savings would be minimal, since it would be limited to non-structural parts where plastics work just as well.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[sillbeers15]

30 minutes ago, BernardC said:

I agree about having an Arca interface. If not on the camera (where it would add height and weight), then on optional battery packs.

Not sure about carbon fiber. I know it's trendy, especially as a veneer, but it doesn't allow the micron-level accuracy that you need for a precisely engineered camera. That means it could only be use for aesthetics, like on your teenage neighbour's souped-up Civic. Actual weight savings would be minimal, since it would be limited to non-structural parts where plastics work just as well.

Limited edition Leica SL2S V-Spec or Type R?