Leica m8

[john MackBrown]

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Hello,  is it worth getting the leica M8 in 2022, if so what would be a avg .price, also I was looking at the M8.2, Thks

[tommonego@gmail.com]

The price is going to be $1800 - $2200 for a 2006 camera, M8-2 would be a little later. Anyway realize the camera has parts that are not replaceable, all work has to be done by Leica and is expensive. I bought mine to do infrared, I believe it is the only camera that will do infrared without modification. The colors are lovely too, to be sure have a IR/UV cut filter to use for color. I like the M8 but it is only 10mp so i use my digital CL more. I did buy a Zeiss 18mm so I could have a WA lens on the camera, equivalent to 24mm. Good luck just don't pay too much, my theme song with the M8 is "Don't Worry Be Happy".

[Tom R]

4 minutes ago, tommonego@gmail.com said:

The price is going to be $1800 - $2200 for a 2006 camera, M8-2 would be a little later. Anyway realize the camera has parts that are not replaceable, all work has to be done by Leica and is expensive. I bought mine to do infrared, I believe it is the only camera that will do infrared without modification. The colors are lovely too, to be sure have a IR/UV cut filter to use for color. I like the M8 but it is only 10mp so i use my digital CL more. I did buy a Zeiss 18mm so I could have a WA lens on the camera, equivalent to 24mm. Good luck just don't pay too much, my theme song with the M8 is "Don't Worry Be Happy".

And, in case the OP didn't know ... the M8 (and M8.2) both have a 1.3 crop factor; so a 28mm lens gives roughy the same angle of view as a 35mm, and so forth... . And, neither the M8 nor the M8.2 will record some of the lens metadata without six-bit encoding--nor will any auto settings be possible. And, if the OP intends to use any external lighting, such as a speed lights, etc., make sure to invest in a "step down" to ensure that the voltages don't fry the M8's circuits.

I own an M8.2 that I use only for color work and as a "sketch pad," albeit I use it less and less often this last year.

[dpitt]

The good:

• I still love my M8 and will probably never sell it. A perfect 10MP shot is enough to make prints of any size.
• The M8 sensor is very sharp and surpasses many 16 or even 20 MP sensor camera's of its era.
• The handling is great as with all Leica M's.
• Low light performance is not great for todays standards, but the RAWs it produces at ISO 160 are quite flexible.
• The B&W jpegs are special and give it the reputation of 'poor man's monochrom'.
• The M8 had some issues in the beginning, but IMO any survivor today with intact shutter and no coffee stain should not get these issues anymore. So IMO the premium for the M8.2 is not worth it today from a practical standpoint.

Now the bad:

• Shooting color often takes careful processing in PP, even when using the UV/IR cut filters. Without filters most of the color files are not recoverable for me (low light ones especially) and have to be converted to B&W. These filters can be expensive and hard to find for some lenses. This limits your choice of lenses a bit.
• Lens choice is awkward. Wide angle M lenses are more expensive than 50mm and with the crop factor 50 is to narrow for most people. Wide lenses need to be coded to work correctly on the M8, there is no manual menu for that like on the later M's.  If you buy vintage Leica lenses, make sure it can be coded. With the added cost of coding and filter, going cheap is not easy. My best compromise was a Summicron 40 C, modified for 50 frame, coded and with filter (halfway screwed on because of the weard thread size on this lens). Later on I added the Elmarit 28 ASPH, luckily with the same filter size. Still, going really wide means 21 or less on the M8 and that gets harder (larger filters) and more expensive.
• In practice I tend to crop a lot in PP on all rangefinders I use. My M9 gives me just enough extra with 18 MP to be comfortable. With the M8 you need to frame the shot almost perfectly, and just clip a bit from the sides.
• The M8 is getting older and some day (hopefully not within the first 10 years) the electronics will die and it will become a paperweight. Leica service is suspended long ago, so even mechanical defects get harder to repair  (because the parts get more expensive even if they are available)

If you do not mind the above and like doing lots of B&W and occasional IR shots, the M8 can still be the best M for you.

Just my 2 cents...
 

[tommonego@gmail.com]

vor 12 Stunden schrieb dpitt:

The good:

• I still love my M8 and will probably never sell it. A perfect 10MP shot is enough to make prints of any size.
• The M8 sensor is very sharp and surpasses many 16 or even 20 MP sensor camera's of its era.
• The handling is great as with all Leica M's.
• Low light performance is not great for todays standards, but the RAWs it produces at ISO 160 are quite flexible.
• The B&W jpegs are special and give it the reputation of 'poor man's monochrom'.
• The M8 had some issues in the beginning, but IMO any survivor today with intact shutter and no coffee stain should not get these issues anymore. So IMO the premium for the M8.2 is not worth it today from a practical standpoint.

Now the bad:

• Shooting color often takes careful processing in PP, even when using the UV/IR cut filters. Without filters most of the color files are not recoverable for me (low light ones especially) and have to be converted to B&W. These filters can be expensive and hard to find for some lenses. This limits your choice of lenses a bit.
• Lens choice is awkward. Wide angle M lenses are more expensive than 50mm and with the crop factor 50 is to narrow for most people. Wide lenses need to be coded to work correctly on the M8, there is no manual menu for that like on the later M's.  If you buy vintage Leica lenses, make sure it can be coded. With the added cost of coding and filter, going cheap is not easy. My best compromise was a Summicron 40 C, modified for 50 frame, coded and with filter (halfway screwed on because of the weard thread size on this lens). Later on I added the Elmarit 28 ASPH, luckily with the same filter size. Still, going really wide means 21 or less on the M8 and that gets harder (larger filters) and more expensive.
• In practice I tend to crop a lot in PP on all rangefinders I use. My M9 gives me just enough extra with 18 MP to be comfortable. With the M8 you need to frame the shot almost perfectly, and just clip a bit from the sides.
• The M8 is getting older and some day (hopefully not within the first 10 years) the electronics will die and it will become a paperweight. Leica service is suspended long ago, so even mechanical defects get harder to repair  (because the parts get more expensive even if they are available)

If you do not mind the above and like doing lots of B&W and occasional IR shots, the M8 can still be the best M for you.

Just my 2 cents...
 

A few disagreements with the above.

1) B+W IR/UV cut filters are no more expensive than other B+W filters and work well with color. If you buy filters don't go cheap.

2) I find the PP processing for DNG files no worse than other cameras. I don't agree with the "digital Kodachrome" references (not on this thread) but it does have nice colors. 

3) I don't find WA lenses need to be coded the crop sensor kind of hides the problems, lenses used 35mm pre asph Summilux, 35 f2.8 Zeiss C-Biogon, 25mm Canon f3.5 LTM, 20mm f2.8 Nikkor, 18 f4 Zeiss Distagon ZM. The M8 has limited response to coding anyway. Both 35s are excellent on the M8, the 25 works well, the 18 gives me the wide angle I wanted, the coding for it is 21 f2.8 Elmarit which is neither on the M8 or in Photoshop. My V1 Summicron also works well with the M8.

4) Several people on this forum have recently sent their M8s to Leica for service and have gotten viable quotes, just really expensive, in the $2K range. Some parts are not available.

5) I tend to try to use my whole frame when making an image.

I have shown this image before, but it introduced me to M8 color. 25mm Canon

 

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[dpitt]

40 minutes ago, tommonego@gmail.com said:

A few disagreements with the above.

1) B+W IR/UV cut filters are no more expensive than other B+W filters and work well with color. If you buy filters don't go cheap.

2) I find the PP processing for DNG files no worse than other cameras. I don't agree with the "digital Kodachrome" references (not on this thread) but it does have nice colors. 

3) I don't find WA lenses need to be coded the crop sensor kind of hides the problems, lenses used 35mm pre asph Summilux, 35 f2.8 Zeiss C-Biogon, 25mm Canon f3.5 LTM, 20mm f2.8 Nikkor, 18 f4 Zeiss Distagon ZM. The M8 has limited response to coding anyway. Both 35s are excellent on the M8, the 25 works well, the 18 gives me the wide angle I wanted, the coding for it is 21 f2.8 Elmarit which is neither on the M8 or in Photoshop. My V1 Summicron also works well with the M8.

4) Several people on this forum have recently sent their M8s to Leica for service and have gotten viable quotes, just really expensive, in the $2K range. Some parts are not available.

5) I tend to try to use my whole frame when making an image

 

I think  we disagree less than you think.

1) Absolutely right, that's why I use Leica filters or B+W: 
39mm is fine, 43 and 46 are getting expensive and 55 and larger even more. That together with coding adds substantial cost if you 're on a budget.
e.g. Finding a UV/IR filter for the 5 cm Elmar is hard and costs more than the lens itself. In general I do not use UV filters on other camera's but just use the hood for protection.

2) Never meant to say that, the DNG's are fine and with UV/IR cut they can produce excellent colors. When shot without filter in low light you often get purple casts and that is very hard to adjust in PP.

3) Not sure, but I agree that the crop helps with the optical issues. 6 bit coding still is the only way to identify lenses in EXIF for the M8. Depends on how many different lenses you use I suppose.

4) Yes, I saw some of these reports, but quotes get so high that I would consider it a total loss. It is important for the OP to consider this risk. I suppose it makes a difference if you already own one and just enjoy it as long as it lasts, as opposed to buying in at this moment...

5) Always try to use the full frame, great for landscapes and other static situations. A lot harder for street and 'action' like with kids or animals. Up to the OP to decide how much he will have a need for cropping.
 

 

Edited December 23, 2022 by dpitt

[jaapv]

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5 minutes ago, dpitt said:

why I use Leica filters

These are by Marumi.

[se12]

Not worth it,

Since we are so used to super high resolution on our phone every moment of the day,

When I review Photos from M8,

I felt somethings wrong with the camera,

There fore I recommend M9 or newer models.

Good luck

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[david strachan]

18 minutes ago, se12 said:

Not worth it,

Since we are so used to super high resolution on our phone every moment of the day,

When I review Photos from M8,

I felt somethings wrong with the camera,

There fore I recommend M9 or newer models.

Good luck

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I think we all take 'phone pictures and being astounded wonder why we use a dedicated camera.

I know it's a lot more fun controlling the output using a real camera...particularly the quirky Leicas.

...

[84bravo]

Treat it like a film camera and you won't be disappointed. I use mine mostly for BW work and I shoot DNG only. If you are expecting a digital camera that is easy to use like modern digital cameras, you will be disappointed. A newer Sony, Canon, or Nikon digital camera will out perform the M8 in almost every regard for the same price.

I love this camera. Even though illogical, the files seem more film like. Others may disagree. Never shoot above ISO 640 and you're good to go.

I do think that they are overpriced right now. The M8 is fetching around $1400 right now and the M8.2 is around $2k. I bought mine when they were much cheaper a couple of years ago. The M8.2 has a slightly better VF with an adjustment made to the frame lines. It also has a better sounding shutter IMO. The M8 has a shutter that sounds like an old Polaroid SX70 camera, or an electric stapler. Otherwise they are the same.

If you get an M8, buy a couple of genuine Leica batteries while you can. They are pretty dear at about $150 ea. The aftermarket batteries can be found for $20 but they can be problematic. There are a lot of threads explaining their use.

About 90% of the photos on my IG feed were shot with an M8 or M8.2. https://www.instagram.com/photokesterson/

Good luck!

Edited December 29, 2022 by 84bravo
Add IG link

[farnz]

11 hours ago, 84bravo said:

The M8.2 has a slightly better VF with an adjustment made to the frame lines.

For the OP's benefit, they're the same RF/VF but the M8.2's VF is parallax compensated for 2 metres whereas the original M8 was parallax compensated for 1 metre.  (In actual use I didn't notice any difference between the two although I feel sure that someone will pop up and tell me how wrong I was/am. )

Pete.

[cobbu2]

On 12/23/2022 at 2:52 PM, tommonego@gmail.com said:

3) I don't find WA lenses need to be coded the crop sensor kind of hides the problems, 

...Snip...

In my experience this is especially true with the original version 1 LTM Voigtländer 15/4.5 Super-Wide Heliar (with which the M8 would crop to the FF equivalent of 20mm). On my M240, I get the classic "Italian Flag" coloration with this lens (even though the adapter I use for it is coded to the WATE).

Not so with the M8, the problem areas are cropped away and it's a fine WA lens to use (with an adapter of course).

Cheers, Allan

[Tux4711]

Am 24.12.2022 um 02:18 schrieb se12:

Since we are so used to super high resolution on our phone every moment of the day,

When I review Photos from M8,

I felt somethings wrong with the camera,

From my point of view, exactly this difference can be seen as an advantage of the M8. My daughter asked me recently during a trip why I always carry "this big heavy thing" around with me when I have the smartphone in my pocket. Therefore, we took a comparison photo at that moment. The first image is from a newer iPhone: sharpness and rich colors. The second image is from the M8 and looks much more interesting to me: Smooth blending and colors. Zooming in closer, you can see that even such a weak sensor as the one in the M8 holds a lot of clarity in the details.

I don't want to start a discussion about camera vs. smartphone here. That wouldn't be the right place and has been discussed many times. I just want to emphasize that the M8 sensor is not that weak and that the differences to crystal-clear sensors, which we are used to in everyday life, can be an exciting benefit of the M8.

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[Graham (G4FUJ)]

Took me a minute to realise this was a model rather than the full size town!

I love my M8 (and the camera doesn't work on my mobile phone - no great loss!).  And I agree re: the Voigtlander 15mm f4.5, though I think it needs a 1/2 to 1 stop centre spot ND filter at least some of the time.

Edited January 7, 2023 by Graham (G4FUJ)
Voigt 15mm added

[farnz]

It looks as though the second picture (M8) was shot with a much larger aperture, which explains the softness in the distance.  Perhaps f/8 or f/11 might have been preferable to wide open(?) for the comparison?

Pete.

[MattiasAndersson]

On 12/24/2022 at 2:18 AM, se12 said:

Not worth it,

Since we are so used to super high resolution on our phone every moment of the day,

When I review Photos from M8,

I felt somethings wrong with the camera,

There fore I recommend M9 or newer models.

Good luck

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Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

M8 is absolutely worth it, try this with your phone:

M8 + 24/3,8

 

[MattiasAndersson]

A crop from this

 

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[cobbu2]

Or this...

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M8, 21/2.8 Elmarit-M (Pre-Asph) and a Hoya R72 IR Filter

[MattiasAndersson]

My point here is about M8 resolution, good enough for me, more pixels are better but do you really need all your phone-pixels?
And with M8 you can be creative with full control, for photographs, not random snaps.

But yes, 10Mpixels is less than the resolution of the fantastic Elmar-M 24, check this crop, and full size.

 

 

 

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Edited January 7, 2023 by MattiasAndersson
changed crop to a smaller but upsampled picture (done on Capture One for IPad)

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Tux4711]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb farnz:

It looks as though the second picture (M8) was shot with a much larger aperture, which explains the softness in the distance.  Perhaps f/8 or f/11 might have been preferable to wide open(?) for the comparison?

Pete.

I agree. A fair comparison was not the intension behind posting the two photos. However, suche a depth of field cannot be created with smartphones via optical means - at least not with my iPhone.