Brand new MP/M-A/M6 film scratches [Merged]

[username]

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11 minutes ago, oldwino said:

If I were interested in purchasing a used copy of one of these cameras, I would first contact Leica Customer service via email and ask for the service record of that serial number. 
 

I’m sure Leica has a pretty good idea of serial number ranges that could have bad pressure plates, but there’s no way to tell if the plate has been replaced with a good one other than asking Leica themselves. 

..good suggestion, thanks!

I wasn't really aware that Leica would be providing service records of their used cameras to everybody that asked for it, be frank..

[username]

17 minutes ago, Al Brown said:

Good luck in assuming Leica CS will give out any service records to you.

Thank you, Al!

I shall try, and will report back whether it was successful or not 👍

[gravelcrowman]

First post on these boards, and not exactly the way I wanted to start 😅. I recently bought an unused MP (dated 2022), I just developed my first roll (used a lab, haven't seen the negatives yet). The roll came back and around 1/2 of the images have a pronounced line running through them. This is my first Leica, and I sold all my digital gear to pay for (most of) this camera. 

Here is a sample photo and a crop of the scratched portion of the image. As you can see, the line is extremely fine. Not sure if this is consistent with what others in this thread have experienced? 

What isn't in-line with the pressure plate issue in this thread is that the line only occurs on the first half of the images. Others seem to say the issue, if not on the whole roll, happens towards the end of the roll when there is increased pressure from the plate. 

Using the advice here I just ran a whole roll through the camera and then broke open the cannister. From what I can see, there are no visible scratches. Would scratches on the film need to be deep/very pronounced for them to show up on the scans?

Is it possible that this was just a fluke it happened during development or I had some dust in the camera? 

Edited December 23, 2024 by gravelcrowman
Spelling errors

[oldwino]

On 12/21/2024 at 7:24 AM, Al Brown said:

Good luck in assuming Leica CS will give out any service records to you.

Every time I’ve email Leica with a question about a particular camera (most recently my M3), they’ve been very forthcoming with service records. 

[jaapv]

Where else? That is where the records are. 

[250swb]

On 12/18/2024 at 10:08 AM, username said:

Would somebody be able to tell me whether there's any consensus regarding this "scratchgate" issue, please?

 

 

The position is what Leica say it is, in a batch of pressure plates some may scratch the film. If a pressure plate is replaced it neither proves or disproves that is where the scratches came from because Leica will simply replace it anyway. So nothing gets proven, it could still have been the lab at fault or winding film backwards and forwards through the felt trap in some cases, although in other cases it will have been the pressure plate causing the scratches. What is clear is that there is still a knee jerk assumption that scratches equal pressure plate, but experienced film photographers will know there are far more potential causes of scratches than the pressure plate and will rule those out. As for discovering the serial numbers of cameras with those faulty pressure plates good luck because you wrongly assume serial numbers are strictly sequential. 

But rest assured, delays in returning a camera are not caused because Leica are simply to lazy to take five minutes to replace the rear door, which seems to be widely assumed, again wrongly. It's because the camera gets a full service at the same time so Leica can't be 'blamed' for returning a camera with other faults that may have been introduced by the owner. 

[LocalHero1953]

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8 hours ago, gravelcrowman said:

First post on these boards, and not exactly the way I wanted to start 😅. I recently bought an unused MP (dated 2022), I just developed my first roll (used a lab, haven't seen the negatives yet). The roll came back and around 1/2 of the images have a pronounced line running through them. This is my first Leica, and I sold all my digital gear to pay for (most of) this camera. 

Here is a sample photo and a crop of the scratched portion of the image. As you can see, the line is extremely fine. Not sure if this is consistent with what others in this thread have experienced? 

What isn't in-line with the pressure plate issue in this thread is that the line only occurs on the first half of the images. Others seem to say the issue, if not on the whole roll, happens towards the end of the roll when there is increased pressure from the plate. 

Using the advice here I just ran a whole roll through the camera and then broke open the cannister. From what I can see, there are no visible scratches. Would scratches on the film need to be deep/very pronounced for them to show up on the scans?

Is it possible that this was just a fluke it happened during development or I had some dust in the camera? 

Sounds most likely to be either a piece of dust/grit in the camera or poor processing. Running a roll of cheap film through without processing is a good test!

[gravelcrowman]

2 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said:

Sounds most likely to be either a piece of dust/grit in the camera or poor processing. Running a roll of cheap film through without processing is a good test!

Thanks! I'm hoping that's the case. The test roll I put through didn't have any scratches that I imagine would show up on a scan. I'll just have to shoot another roll and see how it turns out. 

[Albo]

I'd just like to add my experience to this thread, I bought a second hand M-A that was hardly used, maybe only a roll or two had been through it based on there only being 1 mark on the very new and dark black chrome.  It was a 2014/2015 serial no. (4915xxx)  and it scratched film quite hard on my first roll. I managed to 'fix' it myself, so if you don't have the benefit of a warranty, read on.

 

Initial observation: one quite heavy streak and a couple of minor ones. And a few very hard to see, very tiny ones, but those are the type that most film cameras leave behind.

Step 1: I remembered reading a 'How worn is your pressure plate?' image post and thinking I needed something better to do, but here it provided some inspiration. I decided to gently rub the pressure plate for a few minutes with a Pec Pad. It is a kind of microfibre tissue for cleaning optics.

Result: It softened the biggest scratch line but gave me several more - damn! Not advisable.

Step 2: I cut a piece of film to about pressure plate size, and with a few fingers, rubbed it across the pressure plate quickly for a long time. About 10mins total, not pushing too hard (the weight of my own hand only), figuring it was about equivalent to hundreds of rolls of film going past it. Note: white powder came from the film after every 100 or so swipes, I stopped to rub it away with my fingertip and used a lens blower to remove it from around the screw holes -> I'll come back to the screw holes later. I was concerned this white powder may cause roughness on the plate.

Result: I checked periodically with a sacrificial film I left in the camera. Eventually no major scratching was seen, neither original or Pec Pad induced. Just some very very fine ones, what I consider to be normal for any camera if you look hard enough. Possibly issue resolved?

 

About the screw holes on newer pressure plates. While staring at the pressure plate for all this time, I noticed some faint 'curly whirlies': These are from polishing or sanding with a rotary power tool, (like a polishing pad or an orbital sander for furniture) and dust from the surface you're sanding gets clogged in the pad and cause spiral like patterns. I saw this on my pressure plate even at the beginning (as in, it was like that already, from factory likely).

It is possible the four screw holes are related to these spirals, as fine particles resultant from polishing accumulate in their recesses and are then picked up by the rotary polishing tool's pad used by the factory. Anyone who has tried sanding furniture or a painted surface with a rotary type sander can probably picture what I mean. Perhaps this spiralling, being an unintentional artefact, is the culprit responsible for the scratching problem.  I can still see the spirals btw, but the polishing by film could have knocked down any microscopic edges. It is just a wild theory!

 

[SudaliuS]

I bought a new MP this week. Production date September 2024. Having read the forum beforehand, I was very worried about scratching the film. Before paying, I took a fresh Fomopan and ran all 36 frames in the camera. When I took out the film, I found a thin scratch along the entire length of the film. I was incredibly upset. But then for some reason (to my surprise) I decided that if the scratches were not on the side with the emulsion, then it was okay. The worst came when, on the way home, I finally realized that the forum was talking and worrying specifically about scratches on the glossy side of the film. And I had already paid $5,000 for the camera. I looked at the film again - yes, the scratch was obvious.

What I did next... I bought a can of compressed air and a bottle of isopropyl alcohol. I carefully blew out all the mechanisms with compressed air, avoiding the camera curtains. I wiped under the metal parts under which the film moves with cotton swabs soaked in alcohol.
Moreover, I pushed a piece of soft cloth under these parts and wiped everything there very carefully. I did not notice any flaws on the pressure plate, but I still carefully wiped it with microfiber. After that, I blew out with compressed air again and loaded the cassette with film.

Yesterday I received the scans from the lab and today I picked up the film. There is not a single scratch on the negatives. On the scans, respectively, too. I carefully examined and checked everything. It works perfectly.
Based on a large amount of information, I concluded that very often the film can be scratched not by the pressure plate, but by something on the camera parts or mechanism. Paint, grease, dust, something else.
I hope my message can help someone who encounters a similar problem

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