69xchange Posted September 14, 2023 Share #1101  Posted September 14, 2023 Advertisement (gone after registration) 39 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said: Well that's one hell of a messy film - looks like more than just scratches: speckles, a lot of scratches, other (drying?) marks. Is this the first film you've run through it? As its colour, I assume it was lab processed - you might run a sacrificial new film through it without processing to eliminate lab problems.  Yeah, this is a brand new camera with its first roll of film because the previous used M-A I bought and returned was apparently a stolen property.  I will grab a sacrificial roll of film tomorrow and also ask the lab what kind of method they use for their process. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 14, 2023 Posted September 14, 2023 Hi 69xchange, Take a look here Brand new MP/M-A/M6 film scratches [Merged]. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
69xchange Posted September 14, 2023 Share #1102  Posted September 14, 2023 ^ for any body who’s interested in the story… I bought a user condition M-A camera from a camera store w/o box or manuals. I emailed Leica to confirm it’s production date and they told me that the camera was a stolen / lost product and it’s currently under investigation.  I quickly returned the camera to the store as I was still within the return date policy and asked if I could pay the difference for a brand new M-A instead. Now this new M-A is giving me issues.   Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/355800-brand-new-mpm-am6-film-scratches-merged/?do=findComment&comment=4857420'>More sharing options...
Borna Posted September 14, 2023 Share #1103  Posted September 14, 2023 Damn, so sad. Crazy scratches! What is interesting is why Leica does not recall all new cameras to fix these asap? Or give instructions to service companies to fix these locally. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
69xchange Posted September 14, 2023 Share #1104  Posted September 14, 2023 31 minutes ago, Al Brown said: Two strikes... dump the store would be my suggestion, also please share the name to see which one handles stolen goods. After I determine whether I need to send  the camera back again. I don’t want to risk them denying me an exchange/refund. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
logan2z Posted September 14, 2023 Share #1105  Posted September 14, 2023 3 hours ago, 69xchange said: After I determine whether I need to send  the camera back again. I don’t want to risk them denying me an exchange/refund. Can you at least say if it's an authorized Leica dealer? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted September 14, 2023 Share #1106 Â Posted September 14, 2023 3 hours ago, Borna said: What is interesting is why Leica does not recall all new cameras to fix these asap? I'm glad they don't. My January MP (and those of others who have reported here) is fine. It's certainly a non-trivial number that have this problem, but no one (except at Leica) has an idea how many. And of course it's those with the problem that we hear about. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borna Posted September 14, 2023 Share #1107  Posted September 14, 2023 Advertisement (gone after registration) 24 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said: I'm glad they don't. My January MP (and those of others who have reported here) is fine. It's certainly a non-trivial number that have this problem, but no one (except at Leica) has an idea how many. And of course it's those with the problem that we hear about. I just think that if it is a fault, and of course a big one, they should have done a recall on existing stocks at the camera shops. Here locally you can find silver/black M-A and MP in stock without any problems, before they get sold Leica should change the plate? It is no difference when Toyota, Audi or Volvo does a recall on certain parts that needs to be exchanged. Just my five cents to this. One day it would be great to own a new MP but it is no fun that it is faulty directly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted September 14, 2023 Share #1108  Posted September 14, 2023 13 minutes ago, Borna said: I just think that if it is a fault, and of course a big one, they should have done a recall on existing stocks at the camera shops. Here locally you can find silver/black M-A and MP in stock without any problems, before they get sold Leica should change the plate? It is no difference when Toyota, Audi or Volvo does a recall on certain parts that needs to be exchanged. Just my five cents to this. One day it would be great to own a new MP but it is no fun that it is faulty directly. A related case: the market price for the M9 depends on whether its original sensor, that had many problems with 'corrosion', has been replaced. If your original sensor has no signs of corrosion, then you will get a lower price (or no sale). If I decline to return my MP for plate replacement, I would not like to see it devalued because I chose not to lose it for 3-6 months. OK, this is not a comparable case because (a) the sensor issue is a latent defect that appears over time while a plate either scratches from new or it doesn't, and (b) I doubt I will ever sell my MP. Nevertheless, in a world where the price you get for sale may depend on whether your camera packaging includes the outer grey cardboard sleeve, an ignorant buyer may well ask 'Has the plate been replaced?'. But, as others have pointed out, Leica has said they had a batch of defective plates - I hope they know which serial numbers they went into, so they can recall just those. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huss Posted September 14, 2023 Share #1109  Posted September 14, 2023 7 hours ago, 69xchange said: Yeah, this is a brand new camera with its first roll of film because the previous used M-A I bought and returned was apparently a stolen property.  I will grab a sacrificial roll of film tomorrow and also ask the lab what kind of method they use for their process. The best way to test for scratches, and cheapest, is DO NOT DEVELOP THE FILM!  Just run a roll all the way through your camera, rewind, then remove and examine the film.  Undeveloped film is opaque and so really easy to see any scratches.  This also removes the lab as the possible source of scratches. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomB_tx Posted September 14, 2023 Share #1110 Â Posted September 14, 2023 The "batch of defective plates" likely just means some small percentage of the batch has as roughness in an area that can scratch the film - perhaps at one end where the finishing process left a slight burr where the flat surface blends with the end. I don't have a new M6, but from the way my original M6 plate was finish ground this looks possible. If it is a small percentage of the batch I'd agree with Leica that handling on a case-by-case manner is appropriate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomB_tx Posted September 14, 2023 Share #1111 Â Posted September 14, 2023 12 minutes ago, Al Brown said: Every film scratching and general QC flaw is just "insignificant and trivially microscopic in numbers" until it happens to you on your brand new, freshly bought expensive camera. Even if it is just ONE SINGLE CASE and this case is you nobody should try to fanboy gaslight your ABSOLUTE RIGHT TO BE PISSED and VOCAL ABOUT IT. I agree - I see the major issue is that there is no fast and easy way to get these issues resolved. For the prices Leica charges they should be able to offer fast and reliable warranty support, if they would only accept that Q/C issues occur and need to be better handled. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
69xchange Posted September 15, 2023 Share #1112  Posted September 15, 2023 (edited) Yup, just confirmed with a new roll of film that my M-A from Feb 2023 scratches in 5 spots.. Every single scratch from the previous image is there on the new undeveloped roll of film. Really unhappy with this shit.. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited September 15, 2023 by 69xchange 2 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/355800-brand-new-mpm-am6-film-scratches-merged/?do=findComment&comment=4857883'>More sharing options...
Huss Posted September 15, 2023 Share #1113  Posted September 15, 2023 17 hours ago, 69xchange said: Yup, just confirmed with a new roll of film that my M-A from Feb 2023 scratches in 5 spots.. Every single scratch from the previous image is there on the new undeveloped roll of film. Really unhappy with this shit.. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! That is horrible and speaks to Leica's garbage quality control.  $5500 for that?  What an embarrassment.  And so much for Leica's claim it is just in a limited number of M6s. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
69xchange Posted September 15, 2023 Share #1114  Posted September 15, 2023 27 minutes ago, Huss said: That is horrible and speaks to Leica's garbage quality control.  $5500 for that?  What an embarrassment.  And so much for Leica's claim it is just in a limited number of M6s. Already emailed HQ and the dealer about this yesterday and waiting for a reply. I’ll give them til mid next week. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt Posted September 21, 2023 Share #1115  Posted September 21, 2023 Hello Everyone, my MP from January 2023 is also scratch-er. Currently it's in Leica NJ for repair under warranty. I shoot between 30-40 rolls since and they all bad and also the gaps between frames are uneven. I'm so disappointed. I will post an update when the camera is back.  Cheers. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/355800-brand-new-mpm-am6-film-scratches-merged/?do=findComment&comment=4862026'>More sharing options...
Huss Posted September 21, 2023 Share #1116  Posted September 21, 2023 3 hours ago, Curt said: Hello Everyone, my MP from January 2023 is also scratch-er. Currently it's in Leica NJ for repair under warranty. I shoot between 30-40 rolls since and they all bad and also the gaps between frames are uneven. I'm so disappointed. I will post an update when the camera is back.  Cheers. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Le sigh... Leica still shipping cr@p product I see... On the upside - glass half full etc - once it eventually is working properly it will be great.  Make sure to emphasize EVERYTHING that is wrong.  Directly ask 'did you check this? did you verify it was fixed?'  I had to do that w my M6 as they just shipped it back 'fixed' w/o checking.  And of course it was not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
69xchange Posted September 22, 2023 Share #1117  Posted September 22, 2023 I returned my February 2023 M-A film scratcher and picked up a May 2023 M6 reissue with no issues. If you don’t want to do a coin toss on a scratcher camera, go with any production date beginning in May 2023 - present. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
69xchange Posted September 22, 2023 Share #1118  Posted September 22, 2023 (edited) 10 hours ago, Curt said: Hello Everyone, my MP from January 2023 is also scratch-er. Currently it's in Leica NJ for repair under warranty. I shoot between 30-40 rolls since and they all bad and also the gaps between frames are uneven. I'm so disappointed. I will post an update when the camera is back.  Cheers. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Looking forward to your update in 11 months from now.  For the uneven framing, have you tried tightening the slack after loading the film? Edited September 22, 2023 by 69xchange Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco McBeast Posted September 22, 2023 Share #1119 Â Posted September 22, 2023 This will never show on a print or scan. It only shows when the emulsion side is scratched. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEyesHaveIt Posted September 22, 2023 Share #1120 Â Posted September 22, 2023 I just bought a new Leica MP from Tim Lei / Lisse Leica. What's the best way to check if it has this problem? First film camera for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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