Brand new MP/M-A/M6 film scratches [Merged]

[Steve Ricoh]

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2 hours ago, Huss said:

I just received an email saying the camera has been repaired and will be on its way back to me.
It included the repair invoice for work performed.

There were two issues with the camera:
1/ Scratching film  needing a new pressure plate.

2/ ISO dial defective needing a new ISO dial.

On the invoice there was no mention of the ISO dial being repaired even though in previous communications they told me it was defective and they were waiting on parts.  I wrote back today pointing out that there was no mention that they repaired the ISO dial on the invoice they just sent.
I do not want to get this camera back half repaired.

Waiting for the reply.

I guess that’s another roll of your own film being sacrificed for DIY Quality Contol!

[Huss]

Just got an email.  They forgot about the ISO dial.  But luckily grabbed my camera before UPS picked it up.

ALSO THEY DID NOT CHECK TO SEE IF THE CAMERA NO LONGER SCRATCHES FILM.  They will do that now.

Le sigh.

Edited February 22, 2023 by Huss

[mshchem]

I just an hour ago received my new M6, January 24, 2023 mfg date. Everything looks good. I ran a 36 exp roll of Foma 100 through it,  not a mark, ISO dial is AOK. That's a relief. Huss, I can't believe the BS you're going through. Hopefully everything is good now.

[Huss]

2 minutes ago, mshchem said:

I just an hour ago received my new M6, January 24, 2023 mfg date. Everything looks good. I ran a 36 exp roll of Foma 100 through it,  not a mark, ISO dial is AOK. That's a relief. Huss, I can't believe the BS you're going through. Hopefully everything is good now.

Glad your camera is good.  They were about to ship mine back w/o even checking it!  And without fixing the ISO dial, even though they knew it was defective.

So for me, it ain't over until it is over.  Level of trust is zero.

[mshchem]

I suspect that they are trying to sell as many as possible. In your situation these guys should have sent your camera FedEx overnight to Germany and repaired and sent it back same way. The real problem here is not the defects, it's Leica’s response. Crazy.

[mshchem]

6 minutes ago, Huss said:

Glad your camera is good.  They were about to ship mine back w/o even checking it!  And without fixing the ISO dial, even though they knew it was defective.

So for me, it ain't over until it is over.  Level of trust is zero.

It's beyond belief that they didn't check it. I suspect that they don't have a freaking roll of film! We had a brief management that required people request a Bic pen, they had everyone bring their paperclips back to the secretary. 

This is a management problem, if the dude who owns the company isn't aware of this situation someone should tell him. 

 

[Huss]

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7 minutes ago, mshchem said:

I suspect that they are trying to sell as many as possible. In your situation these guys should have sent your camera FedEx overnight to Germany and repaired and sent it back same way. The real problem here is not the defects, it's Leica’s response. Crazy.

After all this, not only did they only complete only one item - out of two - on the repair order, but that one item - they did not even check if it was correct.

 

[kroko]

it almost sounds like they have a vendetta against you...

[lmans]

20 minutes ago, kroko said:

it almost sounds like they have a vendetta against you...

Most likely...I wonder why

[Anbaric]

ChatGPT, the Uncertainty Principle implies we cannot know both the position and speed of a particle. By analogy, is it impossible for a Leica M6 to have a back that does not scratch film and a functional ISO dial at the same time?

'The Uncertainty Principle is a fundamental principle in quantum mechanics that describes the limits of our ability to simultaneously measure certain pairs of physical properties, such as position and momentum, for subatomic particles.

While it is an interesting analogy to apply the uncertainty principle to the problem of designing a camera, it is not an accurate one. The limitations of designing a camera that has both a non-scratching film back and a functional ISO dial are not based on the laws of physics, but rather on the technical and engineering constraints of the camera design.

For example, the design of the Leica M6 camera and its film transport mechanism may make it difficult to prevent scratching of the film, while still allowing for the use of a functional ISO dial. It may be possible to address this issue through improvements in camera design or materials, but it would be a technical challenge rather than a fundamental physical limitation.

In summary, the limitations on camera design and function are not fundamentally limited by the laws of physics in the same way that subatomic particles are limited by the uncertainty principle.'

[mshchem]

My new M6 arrived today. Has a January 24 2023 date code. Works great none of the stuff Huss has had to deal with. 

The camera is a beauty, just hope it stays that way.

 

A different person signed off on the QC certificate. 🤔

[Steve Ricoh]

8 hours ago, Anbaric said:

ChatGPT, the Uncertainty Principle implies we cannot know both the position and speed of a particle. By analogy, is it impossible for a Leica M6 to have a back that does not scratch film and a functional ISO dial at the same time?

'The Uncertainty Principle is a fundamental principle in quantum mechanics that describes the limits of our ability to simultaneously measure certain pairs of physical properties, such as position and momentum, for subatomic particles.

While it is an interesting analogy to apply the uncertainty principle to the problem of designing a camera, it is not an accurate one. The limitations of designing a camera that has both a non-scratching film back and a functional ISO dial are not based on the laws of physics, but rather on the technical and engineering constraints of the camera design.

For example, the design of the Leica M6 camera and its film transport mechanism may make it difficult to prevent scratching of the film, while still allowing for the use of a functional ISO dial. It may be possible to address this issue through improvements in camera design or materials, but it would be a technical challenge rather than a fundamental physical limitation.

In summary, the limitations on camera design and function are not fundamentally limited by the laws of physics in the same way that subatomic particles are limited by the uncertainty principle.'

It’s a case of classical over quantum mechanics… but it seems the new in-box M6 is both a scratcher and a non-scratcher, and no one knows until the box is opened and tested with a roll of film.

As for the ISO dial, the probability wave should have collapsed into one state or another by quality control looking at it.

Maybe the uncertainty is more a case of whether there is any quality control.

[Ouroboros]

12 hours ago, Huss said:

After all this, not only did they only complete only one item - out of two - on the repair order, but that one item - they did not even check if it was correct.

 

Leica’s continued incompetence is inexcusable.

I hear there’s a lawyer in Hong Kong who puts Leicas in glass cabinets. When yours is returned again, sell it to him as an early FKD edition.

 

[FilmSpiel]

Am 13.11.2022 um 16:57 schrieb maibaum:

Dear Leica M Film photographers,

Quite a desperate advise from you guys. I have bought a Leica MP and I am facing scratches issues.

• First MP: first brand new MP bought at Leica store, i shoot a B&W film and developed myself. I scanned the film and it appears to be scratched on the entire film. Disappointed, I brought back the Leica MP to the store, they put a film in, shoot and rewind. Take the film out and confirmed it is scratched. They give me immediately a brand new Leica.
• Second Leica MP: second brand new MP, i shoot a B&W film and developed myself. I scanned the film and it appears to be scratched on the first half of the film. I brought back the Leica MP to the store, they put a film in, shoot and rewind. Take the film out and confirmed it is scratched but only on the part of the film. They give me immediately a brand new Leica.
• Third Leica MP: third brand new MP, i shoot a B&W film and developed myself. I scanned the film and it appears to be scratched on the last 4 pictures of the film (33, 34, 35, 36). I renew the operation with another film and same outcome.

in a sense there is a positive progression! but honestly i will stop there and will not go for a fourth one (shoot, develop, test...). I have the feeling the pressure plate is the issue when pressure at the end of the film is too high. Any advise before I go for the 4th time to the store?

Note: I am developing the film myself with other films from other cameras which are not scratched, so the development process is not the issue.

Thanks,

Michel

Hi Michael,

 

i do have several MP´s and shoot them quiet frequently. None of them, got any problems. Doesnt matter if a early one 2003 or my MP with production date dezember 22 scratch film.

[tjxism]

My scratching MP has been in Wetzlar for about a week. Haven't hear back from Leica so I assume it's still being inspected. Anyone know how long it normally takes for them to identify the issue? 

I'm fine if the repair takes 6-7 months, but I hope they will be able to identify the issue sooner. So I can sleep tight😅.

[Anbaric]

ChatGPT, Please write a short play in the style of Samuel Beckett's 'Waiting for Godot' about the prolonged wait for Leica to fix the M6 scratching issue.

'Title: Waiting for Leica

Characters:

    VLADIMIR, a photographer
    ESTRAGON, another photographer
    LUCKY, a Leica customer service representative
    POZZO, Lucky's boss

Setting: A desolate street corner. VLADIMIR and ESTRAGON are sitting on a bench, surrounded by empty Leica boxes and camera equipment.

(Enter VLADIMIR and ESTRAGON, both looking disheveled and frustrated.)

VLADIMIR: (Looking at his watch) Any sign of Lucky?

ESTRAGON: Not yet. (Pause) Do you think they've forgotten about us?

VLADIMIR: (Sighs) I don't know, but it's been months. I can't take this waiting anymore.

ESTRAGON: (Holds up his Leica M6 camera) And my camera is still scratched. It's ruining my shots.

VLADIMIR: (Shakes his head) It's unacceptable. We paid good money for these cameras, and we deserve a fix.

(Enter LUCKY, carrying a clipboard)

LUCKY: (Approaches the bench) Good afternoon, gentlemen. Sorry for the delay, but I have an update on your cameras.

VLADIMIR: (Excitedly) Finally! What's the news?

LUCKY: (Sighs) Unfortunately, the scratch issue is still being investigated, and we have no estimated timeline for a fix.

ESTRAGON: (Frustrated) You've got to be kidding me.

VLADIMIR: (Shakes his head) This is ridiculous. How much longer are we supposed to wait?

LUCKY: (Apologetically) I understand your frustration, but there's nothing I can do. I'll keep you updated if I hear anything new.

(Exit LUCKY)

ESTRAGON: (Throws his camera on the ground) I can't take it anymore. I'm done with Leica.

VLADIMIR: (Picks up ESTRAGON's camera) Don't be so hasty. We're photographers, we need our cameras. We'll just have to keep waiting.

ESTRAGON: (Skeptically) And how long will that be? Days? Weeks? Months?

VLADIMIR: (Shrugs) Who knows? (Pause) But one thing's for sure. We'll be waiting for Leica for a long time.

(End of play)'

[Huss]

17 hours ago, lmans said:

Most likely...I wonder why

I did once complain that Matthias Harsch‘s streuselkuchen tasted dry at the Leica annual picnic.

[charlesphoto99]

20 hours ago, Huss said:

Just got an email.  They forgot about the ISO dial.  But luckily grabbed my camera before UPS picked it up.

ALSO THEY DID NOT CHECK TO SEE IF THE CAMERA NO LONGER SCRATCHES FILM.  They will do that now.

Le sigh.

Sounds like a typical Leica NJ repair job. Out to lunch as usual... 

[Huss]

4 minutes ago, charlesphoto99 said:

Sounds like a typical Leica NJ repair job. Out to lunch as usual... 

No no! @lmansthinks it is a vendetta against me!  Even though having one - which would result in this ongoing debacle  - damages Leica's reputation as a purveyor of quality photographic gear.  A vendetta makes so much sense from a business perspective!  Now have these threads appear on a google search, that will be forever out there, than just providing competent customer service!

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Anbaric]

ChatGPT, please write a short film script in the style of 'The Godfather' about the Leica mafia of Wetzlar and their vendetta against a photographer.

Title: The Leica Mafia

FADE IN:

EXT. WETZLAR, GERMANY - DAY

The camera pans over the picturesque town of Wetzlar, home of Leica Cameras. A black sedan pulls up to a grand mansion. The camera zooms in on the entrance as the front door opens, revealing a group of men in suits. They are members of the Leica Mafia.

CUT TO:

INT. MANSION - DAY

A photographer, JIM, is in the middle of a photoshoot. Suddenly, the door bursts open, and the Leica Mafia walks in. Jim is startled and drops his camera.

LEICA MAFIA BOSS
(angrily)
You've been warned, Jim. But you didn't listen.

JIM
(calmly)
I don't know what you're talking about.

LEICA MAFIA BOSS
(dangerously)
You've been using a Nikon. You know that's not allowed. It's a violation of the code.

JIM
(defensively)
I needed a different camera for a project.

LEICA MAFIA BOSS
(furiously)
The code is everything. You don't cross us.

The Leica Mafia Boss signals to his men, who start smashing Jim's camera equipment.

CUT TO:

INT. JIM'S APARTMENT - NIGHT

Jim is sitting at his desk, brooding. He pulls out a Leica camera from his drawer and starts taking pictures of his destroyed equipment. As he looks through the viewfinder, he notices a message written on the back of the camera:

"Your days are numbered."

CUT TO:

EXT. WETZLAR STREETS - DAY

Jim is walking down a deserted street when he is ambushed by two Leica Mafia hitmen. They beat him up and leave him lying in the street.

CUT TO:

INT. JIM'S APARTMENT - NIGHT

Jim is lying on his bed, his face bruised and swollen. He hears a knock on the door and slowly gets up to answer it. It's the Leica Mafia Boss.

LEICA MAFIA BOSS
(smiling)
Jim, my friend. You've got guts. That's why we're offering you a deal.

JIM
(weakly)
What kind of deal?

LEICA MAFIA BOSS
(smiling sinisterly)
We need a photographer for a job. If you do it for us, we'll let you live.

Jim knows he has no choice. He agrees.

CUT TO:

INT. WAREHOUSE - DAY

Jim is taking photos of a shipment of Leica cameras, which is being loaded onto a truck. Suddenly, he notices something strange. One of the boxes has a Nikon logo on it.

JIM
(to the Leica Mafia Boss)
What's this?

LEICA MAFIA BOSS
(evading)
Don't worry about it. Just keep taking pictures.

But Jim doesn't let it go. He opens the box and finds a shipment of Nikon cameras.

JIM
(angered)
You're smuggling Nikons!

LEICA MAFIA BOSS
(defensively)
We need the money. Leicas are expensive to make.

JIM
(resigned)
I won't tell anyone.

LEICA MAFIA BOSS
(smiling)
Good boy.

CUT TO:

INT. JIM'S APARTMENT - NIGHT

Jim is sitting at his desk, looking at the photos he took at the warehouse. He decides to publish them, exposing the Leica Mafia's smuggling operation.

CUT TO:

EXT. NEW YORK TIMES BUILDING - DAY

The New York Times runs a front-page story about the Leica Mafia's