M8 and the Avenon SuperWide-L f/2.8 21mm

[carstenw]

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I found this lens with a brief description here:

 

Leica M Lens

 

Does anyone know anything more about this lens, and how it holds up to the M8's resolution?

[sean_reid]

Hi Carsten,

 

It's the Kobalux re-branded. I tested the second generation Kobalux 21/2.8 in my 21s review. There was also a third generation.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[lct]

So what are your conclusions in a nutshell if you don't mind to post them here Sean?

[carstenw]

Ah! I searched around a bit, but there doesn't seem to be much historical information anywhere, just some isolated reviews like yours and much chatting. Do you know if there is some type of historical reference for these lenses?

[Gid]

Check out Dante Stella's site for more info. I have used mine (Pasoptik) on my RD1 with fine results, but I have not used it on the M8 yet - don't shoot wide much. Kobalux are the makers and Avenon and Pasoptik are names it was sold under - I believe that a US camera dealer sold it under their own brand name, but cannot remember the name. Normally sell for around $400 - $500.

 

Gid

[carstenw]

I was a bit disappointed with the results of the copy Sean tested, compared to past claims of it being a "super sharp" lens and other such statements. How is your copy compared to other lenses in that focal length range?

[sean_reid]

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Ah! I searched around a bit, but there doesn't seem to be much historical information anywhere, just some isolated reviews like yours and much chatting. Do you know if there is some type of historical reference for these lenses?

 

Hi Carsten,

 

I'm not sure what an "isolated review" is but I haven't seen any other very extensive reviews of the lens.

 

Hi LCT,

 

It's a good lower cost lens for the R-D1, in particular, because the similarly inexpensive CV 21 vignettes noticeably on the Epson. It's lower contrast than the current Leica 21 which, in turn, is lower contrast than the Zeiss 21. In fact, the contrast of the Kobalux is a lot like that of the Canon 28/2.8 LTM.

 

The second generation version of this lens that I tested showed moderate resolution wide open and fairly good resolution stopped down. The R-D1 is itself a somewhat lower resolution camera than the M8 so one notices these differences more on the Leica than on the Epson.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[lct]

Thank you Sean.

[carstenw]

With "isolated" I meant that there aren't many. I have seen some user-reviews, in addition to yours, and that is about it.

[carlmuck]

I picked up one of these because I wanted a fast 21 and didn't have the cash for an 21 elmarit (though I did search for a 3.4 super angulon).

 

It is a well built lens, but heavy and big. Doesn't vignette too much on the M8, I'm happy with the performance, sharp and contrasty enough for me.

 

c.

[sean_reid]

With "isolated" I meant that there aren't many. I have seen some user-reviews, in addition to yours, and that is about it.

 

Hi Carsten,

 

Its a fairly obscure lens all in all. In 2004 or 2005, someone on the RFF found a bunch of them and coordinated a group buy. It's a good inexpensive 21 for the R-D1. On the M8, the lens is a matter of taste. Some really like the lower contrast, slightly softer resolution look of older lenses. If that is what one is after, its a bargain. Build quality seems to be excellent.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[sean_reid]

I was a bit disappointed with the results of the copy Sean tested, compared to past claims of it being a "super sharp" lens and other such statements. How is your copy compared to other lenses in that focal length range?

 

There are a few possibilities:

 

1) Version 3 is a better performer technically.

 

2) Some samples show stronger res than others.

 

3) People have different senses of what is "acceptable" or "good" resolution.

 

Given some samples I've seen, made with other copies, I suspect its just not a high res lens at wide apertures.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[carstenw]

I have read that version 3 is identical to version 2, except for a 70cm instead of 90cm close focus limit, I believe. Does David's (and other friends of yours) Kobalux have similar results? Perhaps the "super sharp" comment was just too optimistic.

[sean_reid]

I have read that version 3 is identical to version 2, except for a 70cm instead of 90cm close focus limit, I believe. Does David's (and other friends of yours) Kobalux have similar results? Perhaps the "super sharp" comment was just too optimistic.

 

I've read that there were some optical changes but I don't know if that is true or, if it is, how important those changes were. The lens is quite sharp stopped down, as seen in that now famous picture by David.

 

If one is looking for a high res 21, the top choices would be the current Leica or either one of the Zeiss 21s. A good copy of the CV 21 (which may require some testing to find) can be quite impressive across the frame while also being much less expensive than the other three. It may be that the 21Ps have less sample variation than the 21 LTM but that may not be true.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[petermcwerner]

Check out Dante Stella's site for more info.

Here is Dante Stellas page: Kobalux Lenses for Leica

Normally sell for around $400 - $500

They are quite sought after, $800-$1300 seems more realistic, at least on ebay if in good condition.

 

May I add some more info on 20-21mm third party or non-M lenses I use:

 

Zeiss Flektogon 20mm/4.0

A huge lens, covers nearly half of the viewfinder, but delivers impressive results, on the low contrast side. I rarely use it because of it's size.

 

 

 

Nikkor 20mm/4.0 AI

My favorite, especially when travelling, because it is relatively small and sharp. Excellent value for price ($150-200 + adapter).

Of course, not rangefinder-coupled but at this focal length DOF is quite large and I use hyperfocal distance. Definitely needs a lens hood (the one for the 35mm Nikkor does a good job and does not vignette on the M8, the original one is hard if not impossible to find)

 

 

 

Avenon (Kobalux) 21mm/2.8

I bought it a few weeks ago, it tends to flare and I had no lens hood for it. It just received the lens hood and it makes a huge difference, but I could not yet test it more thoroughly.

 

Leica 21-35/3.5R

Delivers good results at 21mm, but if you do not already own it, hardly a worthwile alternative

 

 

Another interesting extreme W/A lens is the 16mm/2.8 Zenitar

 

 

There is also the 20/4.5 Takumar and the Russian 20/4 MIR, which I had no access to.

[wlaidlaw]

 

Another interesting extreme W/A lens is the 16mm/2.8 Zenitar

 

 

...and I thought I was the only one using one of the rectilinear (rectangular rather than circular image) fish-eye Zenitars on the M8. I bought an Elephoto M42 to Leica M adapter, after I discovered that the Contax SLR bayonet on my lens was simply a screw on adapter. I was not expecting a lot but I was very pleasantly surprised how well it all works. With the 1.3 crop factor, the lens becomes a semi-fish-eye and as long as there are not straight lines for it to bend, you hardly notice the effect. Even the vignetting, which is very noticeable when used as a 35mm SLR lens, is moderate. I am wondering if there are some other ultra wide non-fish-eye M42 lenses out there, which would be an effective and economic purchase for the M8.

 

Wilson

[sean_reid]

Here is Dante Stellas page: Kobalux Lenses for Leica

They are quite sought after, $800-$1300 seems more realistic, at least on ebay if in good condition.

 

Hi Peter,

 

That's a neat list of alternatives. If you're right about current prices, that's good news because I may sell my Kobalux this fall. As you know, I've reviewed the Flek 20 twice on my site (on EOS SLRs).

 

For the M cameras, I think the really great bargain 21 is a good copy of the CV 21/4.0. It's small, light, RF-coupled, shows no CA and is optically excellent.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[sean_reid]

This one went for about $400.

 

KOBALUX 21mm f2.8 rangefinder lens in Leica screw mount - (eBay item 200152419130 end time Sep-23-07 19:45:00 PDT)

[cme4brain]

Here is Dante Stellas page: Kobalux Lenses for Leica

They are quite sought after, $800-$1300 seems more realistic, at least on ebay if in good condition.

 

May I add some more info on 20-21mm third party or non-M lenses I use:

 

Zeiss Flektogon 20mm/4.0

A huge lens, covers nearly half of the viewfinder, but delivers impressive results, on the low contrast side. I rarely use it because of it's size.

 

 

Another interesting extreme W/A lens is the 16mm/2.8 Zenitar

 

]

 

There is also the 20/4.5 Takumar and the Russian 20/4 MIR, which I had no access to.

 

Can you post some shots made with the Zenitar lens? What is its resolution?

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[petermcwerner]

Can you post some shots made with the Zenitar lens?

Just click on this 16mm/2.8 Zenitar link to see some pictures I shot with it on the M8. Although I used no IR filter, the cloth of the ladies' nylon jacket is rendered correctly