To upgrade or not?

[Olaf_ZG]

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Last year I bought a secondhand M9M, just to see if a pure monochrom is for me or not.

Recently I really start enjoying the camera, especially coupled with a 50mm sonnar, for more artistic images, where focus and sharpness is of less importance.

However, shooting such images takes lots of trial and errors and when shooting a session the buffer is quickly filled which is rather bothering.

Now, I could upgrade to a m10m, but need to sell the current mm. Can’t and don’t want to have both.

At the moment I am in favour of upgrading, but I know some people can’t part of their original M and I am not sure why.

Shall I upgrade? Why does one keep its old MM? For sure the brain says upgrade, but the question is about the heart…

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[DrM]

What do you expect of the upgrade? (In terms of Added value)

Best

Marc

[Olaf_ZG]

1 minute ago, DrM said:

What do you expect of the upgrade? (In terms of Added value)

Best

Marc

For sure, the buffer won’t bother me.

(it never did before to be honest, but with selective focus, I now take sequences of photos and the buffer gets filled easily, not a problem with still life, but with humans it is)

Better base iso is welcome. Would miss the sound though.

[FrozenInTime]

I've found the M10M better in every conceivable way compared to the M9M ( resolution, dynamic range, base and high ISO, DNG malleability, shutter noise, haptics, file processing speed, even occasionally live view and LCD quality  ) ; zero regrets. 

[Stef63]

I have had the two previous Monochrom camera’s. Now my current M10M is playing in another league’s.  The original MM produced pictures with a certain “character” probably due to the CCD sensor. High ISO showed pleasing grain.  The M10M high ISO on the other hand shows just, … well nothing.  At ISO 10000 and -1 exp comp there is still plenty of headroom to recover the blacks and produce a very clean image.  If you like you can add grain in post.

I’ve said it numerous times on this forum : the M10M is my first camera that removes ISO from the equation Shutter, Aperture, ISO to expose a picture.  In 20 years of digital photography I always struggled with ISO.  Not on this camera.  I use Auto ISO, 2xfocal to set the speed and avoid camera shake, and the aperture is my only tool I play with for photographic creativity purposes. 

And indeed all what @FrozenInTime said is true as well. 

[sometimesmaybe]

On 11/27/2022 at 7:52 AM, Olaf_ZG said:

I now take sequences of photos and the buffer gets filled easily, not a problem with still life, but with humans it is

i also like to shoot bursts (around 2 to 3 images) for my portraits. i just find it easier since the subject usually doesn't know exactly when i press the shutter button.

on the m246, the blackout period is around 2 seconds at the end of each burst. i find it a tad annoying but i can live with it. from what ive read in other parts of this forum, the m10m has a shorter blackout period than the m246 

[1joel1]

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I love my M9M and have no plans to "upgrade". My workflow doesn't require a fast buffer. The M9 does look different and the base ISO, 320 I think, works well for me.

For other needs, I have a Sony A7rii (m) that has been modified. It is a perfect replacement for times that the Leica can't do the job.

I think you have to determine what your needs are. Simple solution, rent the M10M and see if it will become your new dream camera.

Cheers,

Joel

[ramarren]

I had an M9, never any interest in the M9M. Too many things about the M9 didnt cut it for me.

I'd been using the M-P240 for a while when the M-M246 was announced. Wanted one of those immediately but my orders were never filled in the year they stood... short supply.

I was out of rf cameras for a while, decided to get back in last Spring. After trying out the idea of one or two others, i found a new M10-M available and went for it. 

Absolutely brilliant camera, just what I've wanted for years. Barely use anything else now except tor my film camera obsessions. Hard to say anything bad about it. Unless you need/want color capture—me only occasionally—it can easily be the only camera left in the closet. 

G

[derleicaman]

I have a very late M9M that was made custom for me by Wetzlar. Silver with the P engraving on the top, so I have some sentimental attachment to it. I sold my M9-P some time ago, and upgraded to the M10. Recently, I acquired an M10M Wetzlar Edition from another Forum member at a great price. I used it on my trip to Europe last month with my M10-P. I used the Monochrom at 2/3 of the time. It is an incredbile camera as others here have pointed out. Plus, the commonality of batteries and other accessories make it a no brainer. There is a special symbiotic  something to using it with the 28 Summaron re-issue lens. Pure magic! I can't put it down. I am thinking of selling my original Monochrom, as I doubt I will ever use it again, the M10M is that good. Best digital camera I have ever owned or used.

[Herr Barnack]

 

As an M10 Monochrom owner, I cannot see a downside to upgrading from the M9M.  The advances found in the M10 Mono are compelling:

 

ISO: 160 - 100,000 with a fine print making ISO capability of 20,000 at minimum (M9M = ISO 160 - 10,000)

40.89 mp sensor (M9M = 18 mp)

Maestro II Image Processor

Velvety quiet mechanical shutter sound (when compared to my M-P 240)

ISO dial on top plate

Larger 3" touch screen

The BP-SCL5 batteries are priced within reason for a Leica battery ($200 vs. $275 for the Q2 battery)

The BP-SCL5 battery has excellent battery life

 

JMHO but it is hard to see a downside with the M10 Monochrom. 

 

Edited December 1, 2022 by Herr Barnack

[Jeff S]

There are even more technical improvements to the M10 Monochrom compared to the M(9) Monochrom.  
 

Besides the added MP, the S3-derived sensor includes, according to Stefan Daniel,  dual gain architecture, 10% more photon/light gathering ability than even the M10 due to relocated sensor electronics, and even improved pixel shape. Base ISO is also reduced significantly. Build quality is greatly improved, including better weather sealing and higher build tolerances.  The VF is also larger diameter, with  greater magnification and eye relief. 
 

That said, the original M Monochrom still produces special files. And it remains the only digital M with a RAW-based histogram.   The M10 Monochrom is my favorite digital M camera to date, but I still haven’t sold my original MM; just a matter of time, though.

Jeff

[Olaf_ZG]

6 hours ago, Jeff S said:

I still haven’t sold my original MM

Jeff

This remark is holding me back, I would not like to have two MM’s cause then I use each of them half… would I regret selling the original? (I know, only I can answer this). What is keeping you from selling it? Obviously there must be quite a difference in files …

[Jeff S]

9 hours ago, Olaf_ZG said:

This remark is holding me back, I would not like to have two MM’s cause then I use each of them half… would I regret selling the original? (I know, only I can answer this). What is keeping you from selling it? Obviously there must be quite a difference in files …

I should, and will, sell the MM.  Just need to decide on outright sale or trade.  The value has actually gone up a bit as I’ve waited, selling for more than my (used mint) purchase price, as assessed by the dealer. The M10M is the better overall camera platform, even though both can produce fine results, mostly depending on me. Clearly, the M10M is more flexible, with less noise at higher ISO, but the noise structure of the MM can sometimes appeal given the scene and rendering intent. I don’t waste time doing A/B tests between gear; rather I just use gear over an extended period and make prints. I’ve made both mediocre and superb prints using each camera.  I can’t attest to any CCD ‘magic’ as some suggest, but I won’t argue that that the results can be special at times, with the right lighting, etc, but that’s probably true for any camera.  Nowadays I rarely use the MM, almost always picking up the newer one, so there’s no real conflict.
 

Jeff

[Jeff S]

One more benefit of the M10M…it has frame lines optimized for 2m (versus 1m on the M9M), which better matches my shooting style.  
 

Jeff

[otto.f]

On 11/26/2022 at 9:41 PM, Olaf_ZG said:

For sure the brain says upgrade, but the question is about the heart…

What can a brain say other than the heart in this decision? Your only argument is the buffering and that’s because you do not seem to learn from experience how to expose? Or I don’t understand. I never had any problems with street photography with the Monochrome1. There is a lot of tolerance to correct exposure in pp. Or is it just GAS here? 
From what I’ve seen here from the M10M I find it all too much, leading to the technical image quality asking more attention from the viewer than the content of the image. I would certainly find out for yourself what you wish for and be carefull. You seem quite in doubt, don’t overtake when in doubt, they say in Dutch.

Edited December 5, 2022 by otto.f

[brill64]

It's getting harder to find brand new M9M batteries. My old ones don't have enough amp-age on a full charge and won't run my M9M properly. I've had an order in for new batteries at the Leica Store Hong Kong for several months now but no luck. This nips sentimentality in the bud somewhat.

[Jeff S]

2 hours ago, brill64 said:

It's getting harder to find brand new M9M batteries. My old ones don't have enough amp-age on a full charge and won't run my M9M properly. I've had an order in for new batteries at the Leica Store Hong Kong for several months now but no luck. This nips sentimentality in the bud somewhat.

Currently available through multiple stores and vendors in US.  Don’t know about other locations or future access.

Jeff

[otto.f]

On 12/5/2022 at 8:24 AM, otto.f said:

the technical image quality asking more attention from the viewer than the content of the image.

This one for instance. Which means in my view that the M10M would be perfect for landscape and architecture and rather not for street, documentary or journalistic work.

 

Edited December 7, 2022 by otto.f

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[Olaf_ZG]

It looks like most are in favour of the m10m which is ofcourse a technically better camera. I am “worried” that some have still the original MM. Does one need two MM’s?

I appreciate the comments of @otto.f, may be it is GAS, but still, except for the feeling, the m10m wins. Question is though, do I need the extras? Will I make better images?

For sure, at current my “needs” are driven by GAS, so I decided to use the original MM a bit more before deciding. 

[Olaf_ZG]

On 12/7/2022 at 9:00 AM, otto.f said:

This one for instance. Which means in my view that the M10M would be perfect for landscape and architecture and rather not for street, documentary or journalistic work.

 

This discussion about the technical aspect is sue to the fact that the M10M was just out. Reading the comment #13 in respective thread would be very useful for documentary/journalism.

To be continued…