Chinese lenses

[Chimichurri]

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Never fails lct letting everyone know the M11 is the greatest M ever made in history. 😂🤣

So now I get it. Okay so the plan is to have the lenses in a box as a collection of lenses and get some crappy cheap lens to use. 

Well. That makes perfect sense. The Leica too. Put all the Leica stuff in a humidity controlled glass display. Everyone in the neighborhood will come see your lenses and camera. 😀

Then get a used Nikon D5300 and a kit lens and shoot that. 

isn’t that exactly the cliche? That rich people buy Leica just for decoration ? 

Edited November 12, 2022 by Chimichurri

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[Erato]

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Edited November 12, 2022 by Erato
More ref. Added

[pippy]

1 hour ago, Erato said:

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

 

 

That really is a rather wonderful selection of various lens designs through the years. Thanks, Erato, for taking the trouble to illustrate the point about 'Optical Design; a few of their origins and some of their derivatives' so clearly; some truly great stuff in there!

Philip.

[frame-it]

5 hours ago, lct said:

The 7artisans 35/2 is a Sonnar design IINW.

so its a copy of a Zeiss design, but still a copy

[lct]

1 hour ago, frame-it said:

so its a copy of a Zeiss design, but still a copy

Yes but are Elmar and Summicron copies of Tessar and Planar or the other way around .

[lct]

4 hours ago, Chimichurri said:

Never fails lct letting everyone know the M11 is the greatest M ever made in history. 😂🤣

The greatest i don't know but i have had M3, M4, M4-2, M6J, M8.2, M240 and M11 and the later plays in another league for sure. It is not the best for slow shutter speeds though. The M12 will have IBIS hopefully but a global shutter would be interesting too. Lot of room for progress in the M world .

[frame-it]

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56 minutes ago, lct said:

Yes but are Elmar and Summicron copies of Tessar and Planar or the other way around .

from the days when there where no patents and the allies cancelled the patents after WW2

[Chimichurri]

2 hours ago, lct said:

the later plays in another league for sure

Never fails! 😅

[lct]

21 minutes ago, Chimichurri said:

Never fails! 😅

[lct]

1 hour ago, frame-it said:

from the days when there where no patents and the allies cancelled the patents after WW2

Are you sure some patents are infringed by Chinese companies in this instance? Just curious as I am not specialized in intellectual property law.

[archive_all]

I tried the  the TTA 21 1.5, @Sully. I found it was sort of okay at 2.8 or 4 but was awful at 1.5 and 2 so then the size and weight was impractical since there are much smaller and sharper slower lenses. So if you have a Leica 21 2.8 that's smaller then I don't understand how a large 21 lens is useful if it's not really useable at faster apertures. You have a 262 and SL2S you say, have you considered pairing down bodies so you can have better lenses? 

[frame-it]

4 hours ago, lct said:

Are you sure some patents are infringed by Chinese companies in this instance? Just curious as I am not specialized in intellectual property law.

as far as i know, there were no patents [and/or they were cancelled] before the M mount, but anything after the M mount as released would have a patent

 

[Thury]

18 minutes ago, frame-it said:

as far as i know, there were no patents [and/or they were cancelled] before the M mount, but anything after the M mount as released would have a patent

 

Patents are generally valid for some 20 years after which anybody can freely use the innovation described in the patent. The basis for patents laws around the world is: offer the inventor a protection limited in time in exchange for the publication of his invention so that others can use it and build upon it after the end of the protection period.

[jankap]

27 minutes ago, Al Brown said:

Buys a $300 lens.
Cold war breaks out.
Loses support for cheap lens.

🤠

Do lenses need support? And if, then there are third parties for CLA-ing. Otherwise use it as a museum piece in your cupboard.

I just bought the Dreamlens. I don't believe, that Canon still has spare parts for it.

[pegelli]

1 hour ago, Thury said:

Patents are generally valid for some 20 years after which anybody can freely use the innovation described in the patent.

And this 20 years is only valid if the person/company owning the patent pays their yearly renewal dues. As soon as this isn't paid anymore the owner loses the protection and everybody is free to use whatever is described in the patent.

[jaapv]

13 hours ago, lct said:

The Leica lens the OP's referring to is an Elmarit 21/2.8 from 1982. I have no experience with this lens but i suspect it may cause red edge issues on inferior  digital M bodies, i mean earlier to the M11. Would be a question to ask connoisseurs of this lens like our colleague @adan to be sure. Anyway it would be interesting to know how Chinese 21mm lenses behave re red edge as a comparison.

Unfortunately red edges have nothing to do with the camera but only with chromatic aberration of the lens. If you mean blue haloes around bright highlights, that is indeed sensor blooming, which we rarely see nowadays.

[budjames]

5 hours ago, lct said:

Are you sure some patents are infringed by Chinese companies in this instance? Just curious as I am not specialized in intellectual property law.

The Chinese have no respect for international law standards. They rip off everything. 

Because I can afford it, I choose to not give my hard-earned cash to any Chinese company, if possible. I buy only Leica lenses for my M and SL bodies because I want the very best. Sure, Leica gear is expensive, but for this gear, my philosophy is "Buy once, cry once!". Leica lenses hold their value better than any other manufacturer if you do have to sell them in the future.

For my friends and family who want a great system, but do not want to invest in Leica, I recommend Fuji-X. I shot Fuji-X for five years after moving from heavy Canon pro DSLRs and lenses and before moving to all Leica in 1997. The Fuji-X system and resulting image quality is awesome. The system is relatively more affordable than current mirrorless offerings from Canon and Nikon assuming you can get your head over the argument of FF vs. APS-C sensor formats.

We are blessed with so many great systems for all budget ranges. I just happen to like and am able to afford Leica.

Regards,
Bud James

Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography.

[Gobert]

18 hours ago, budjames said:

I used to work for a manufacturer of Commerical photographic and graphics arts processing machines. We did business all over the world. Kodak was our distributer in the Middle East and Asia. I worked with the Chinese and saw how they smiled at us while ripping off our design and cloning our equipment and spare parts. That was over 35 years ago. Since then Kodak and my former employer went out of business.

As a result of first hand experiences with the Chinese government, I have no interest in buying anything made in China if other options exist. It's hard to do, especially if you buy stuff from Amazon. I always try to source USA-made first followed by Europe for my stuff. Unfortunately, I cannot do this yet with my Apple gear.

For Leica, all of their stuff is expensive. We all know that. Fortunately, if you are shooting the M system, then buying Leica lenses are a great investment. That's all I buy. I have found that the more I shoot with my M, the fewer lenses I need. My last four travel vacations, I only brought my M10-R, and now M11, with a Leica 35mm lens. It's all I need. My iPhone Pro helps for the occasional ultra wide or moderate tele lens during my travels.

My M11 and APO-Summicron 35mm is my camera of choice these days. It's very liberating to have less equipment to worry about or fuss over which lens I should be using at the moment.

Regards,
Bud James

Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography.

I fully agree. I have the same principles!
problem is however, when I lift the engine hood from my German made Benz or Audi or from my Italian made Fiat I see Chinese parts. Looking at my Ducati, KTM or BMW motorbikes I see Chinese engine parts. Everywhere around me I see Chinese parts. It is economic imperialism.

 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[lct]

1 hour ago, jaapv said:

Unfortunately red edges have nothing to do with the camera but only with chromatic aberration of the lens. If you mean blue haloes around bright highlights, that is indeed sensor blooming, which we rarely see nowadays.

I cannot follow you here. Red edges can only be due to the sensor when seeing the difference between BSI sensors and earlier ones. The infamous Italian flag simply disappears or becomes negligible with those modern sensors. When i say modern this is relative since this is true not only for the M11 but also for my 7 years old Kolari mod Sony A7r2. I have rediscovered a lens like the Super-Angulon 21/3.4 thanks to this BSI technology and i can now use digital cameras the same was as film ones more or less with lenses like S-A 21/3.4, Skopar 21/4, Heliar 15/4.5 v2, etc. Here S-A 21/3.4 on M11 and M240.

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[lct]

1 hour ago, budjames said:

The Chinese have no respect for international law standards. They rip off everything. 

That's what people used to say when Japanese products invaded Europe after WW2. I'm just an ugly lawyer you know and for me there is or there is no patent infringements, as simple as that. Hence my question. My feeling is there are no patent infringements by Chinese companies about optical designs like Sonnar's we were discussing about but i'm not specialized in this matter at all so i may be totally wrong .