M10 to M10-R Upgrade Questions

[MikeMyers]

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I mostly use two cameras, my M10 and my Nikon D780.  Both are 24 megapixel sensors, which is adequate for everything I do.  I have no desire to start capturing 40 or 60 meg images, for the same types of photos I already take.  A few questions:

Is Leica's upgrade program still in place, to upgrade an M10 to an M10-P or M10-R ?

Does the camera have to go back to Germany for the upgrade?  If so, how many weeks/months/years before I'm likely to get it back?

Do I get "my" M10 back, or is the camera swapped out for a different camera?

Final question - does the new camera only shoot in 40-meg image mode, or can I shoot at 40 or 24 ?

I don't want to buy an M11, and the M10-R with the quiet shutter and the "gyro"  seems like a useful upgrade.  For those of you who have done this, were you satisfied?

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[Jeff S]

The M10 and M10-P have been discontinued.  There never has been an upgrade from M10 to M10-R… completely different sensor architecture, derived from the S3….40.89 MP.  The M11 was the first M to have multiple MP DNG options.

Jeff

[Jeff S]

If by ‘uograde’ you mean trade-in, that’s always possible through Leica or dealers; not aware of any special promotions. Leica Miami near you would know.

Jeff

[MikeMyers]

Now I think I might have been wrong, but what I think I read was that my M10 would get the new shutter and new sensor, and end up being an M10-R (if that was the upgrade I wanted).  I don't mean "trade in", but that is another way to go about it I guess.

[Jeff S]

No such sensor upgrade to an M10-R; only sensor upgrade pertained to the M9 sensor corrosion.
 

M10 to M10-P conversion, when it was offered, was for either a partial upgrade for the top plate and touchscreen (for about $1300), or full upgrade including shutter (for about $3k). The sensors are unchanged.

The M10 Monochrom and M10-R share new sensor tech (apart from color array).  The only way to get either is via new or used purchase or trade.  

Jeff

Edited November 12, 2022 by Jeff S

[jakontil]

1 hour ago, MikeMyers said:

Now I think I might have been wrong, but what I think I read was that my M10 would get the new shutter and new sensor, and end up being an M10-R (if that was the upgrade I wanted).  I don't mean "trade in", but that is another way to go about it I guess.

Hi mike, last time in random cases, there were some with m10 and upgraded to m10- p, with different top plate and touch screen as well as more silent shutter

but never been a case frm m10 to R variant

[Jeff S]

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9 minutes ago, jakontil said:

Hi mike, last time in random cases, there were some with m10 and upgraded to m10- p, with different top plate and touch screen as well as more silent shutter

but never been a case frm m10 to R variant

Post #5

Jeff

[Chimichurri]

13 hours ago, MikeMyers said:

Final question - does the new camera only shoot in 40-meg image mode, or can I shoot at 40 or 24 ?

I don't want to buy an M11, and the M10-R with the quiet shutter and the "gyro"  seems like a useful upgrade.  For those of you who have done this, were you satisfied?

No it shoots 40MP DNG files. Just like your M10 shoots 24MP. And you’ll appreciate every one of those pixels. I could never go back to 24MP. I was also always saying “I don’t need 40MP”. 

[Chimichurri]

12 hours ago, MikeMyers said:

Now I think I might have been wrong, but what I think I read was that my M10 would get the new shutter and new sensor, and end up being an M10-R (if that was the upgrade I wanted).  I don't mean "trade in", but that is another way to go about it I guess.

You have to trade it in for a new camera. And I would hurry before they stop making the M10R. 

[MikeMyers]

Thanks, question answered.

There is always something newer and better coming in the future.  

 

13 minutes ago, Chimichurri said:

And you’ll appreciate every one of those pixels. I could never go back to 24MP. I was also always saying “I don’t need 40MP”. 

Can you please elaborate?  If this is true, why not go for the 60 megapixel M11 for the same price?  I don't want to buy an M11, and I feel the way you felt.  If you are making huge prints, that would explain it - but my finished images are for digital use, not printing......

[jakontil]

10 minutes ago, MikeMyers said:

Thanks, question answered.

There is always something newer and better coming in the future.  

 

Can you please elaborate?  If this is true, why not go for the 60 megapixel M11 for the same price?  I don't want to buy an M11, and I feel the way you felt.  If you are making huge prints, that would explain it - but my finished images are for digital use, not printing......

The only reason why i swoop my m10-p for R was a black paint, despite knowing its highlights recovery was improved, in this end, it’s a bonus

now i use the m10r to scan my negs, so yeah the extra pixels make a big deal, but other than that, i was happy with the m10p

[Chimichurri]

58 minutes ago, MikeMyers said:

Thanks, question answered.

There is always something newer and better coming in the future.  

 

Can you please elaborate?  If this is true, why not go for the 60 megapixel M11 for the same price?  I don't want to buy an M11, and I feel the way you felt.  If you are making huge prints, that would explain it - but my finished images are for digital use, not printing......

The 40MP is just a better sensor. I came from the 10P and it was noticeably better in every way. Recovery. The rendering of the lenses. Everything was just that much better. Not to mention the ability to crop and the flexibility in post as far as that. I shoot 50mm and without a thought I can compose things I know are just too far away but I don’t care. all the details are there  

The RAWs from the M10R are like playdough.

I changed mine because the 10P had an issue. I was happy with it although not the huge IQ improvement over my Fuji that I was expecting going Full Frame. Then I got the M10R and all that changed. It felt like a true upgrade.

The M11 well. Just have a look at the M11 forum 😅 .. nightmare. I’m sure the M11 sensor is almost like medium format quality. But seems like the camera has a lot of issues almost a year after being released. That’s not good. 

I guess that’s a good way to compare. It’s like going to medium format. You can’t say it’s just more megapixels. Overall the image and the files you get back are just better, not just bigger. So it’s the same going from the 10 to the 10R. 

40MP also feels just right. It’s big enough so that you get the cropping and details benefit but not so big that you’ll have to get all new lenses or worry about seeing every little camera shake and wish for IBIS like the 60MP M11 sensor. 

Edited November 12, 2022 by Chimichurri

[Adam Bonn]

I just got an M10-R (regular black chrome, bought secondhand privately) 2 days ago

I haven’t back to back compared with my M10 yet as I’m away from home…

initial impressions are that it’s a very different camera to the regular 10 in terms of the rendering, different vibe to the pictures, different colours and tones

From memory… The R is SLIGHTLY more sluggish than my 10, pressing a button takes a fraction longer to get a response, it also looks like the pictures have more vignette than the M10 (which doesn’t sound right, so maybe my brain is playing tricks… I need to shoot the same thing at the same time with both which isn’t an option right now)

I haven’t had it long enough to really get a sense of how much I’m going to like it (away from home, rainy place, only the MacBook screen to review images)

I kinda bought it on a whim… it came up for sale via a friend of a friend at a decent price… and I just had a GAS attack and went for it….

Back when I downloaded the DPR/PB DNG samples I wasn’t blown away…. Sharp, modern, a little clinical were my thoughts..

But my own pictures so far (kitschy shit around my mum’s house and the local little village church yard on the one non-rainy afternoon) have been for more pleasing for my tastes… so that’s very encouraging and hopefully this is the start of a beautiful relationship.

[M Street Photographer]

vor 9 Minuten schrieb Adam Bonn:

I just got an M10-R (regular black chrome, bought secondhand privately) 2 days ago

Congratulations, welcome to the club. 😄 You will not be disappointed.

[Adam Bonn]

43 minutes ago, Al Brown said:

They may have super similar DR charts and all, but in practical use away from theory

The trouble with DR charts is that they’re not exposure latitude charts

Two cameras can capture a similar amount of DR but one camera can be significantly better at moving the data around in post and “recovering” light/dark areas

[Adam Bonn]

48 minutes ago, M Street Photographer said:

Congratulations, welcome to the club. 😄 You will not be disappointed.

Thank you. I’m super excited to get it back home start using* it properly

(and always slightly antsy when I buy something expensive privately..)

 

*which will be nature’s excuse to produce the wettest autumn on record 😂

[Adam Bonn]

1 minute ago, Al Brown said:

Clearly so. And especially if the sensors in them are completely different.

Marketing tells us to care about DR (and it is important) but what makes us happy is exposure latitude. (EL)

High DR and low EL can be a little like a sports car with poor quality tires….

However, I don’t doubt for a second that the 10R has more EL than the regular 10, but I don’t find that the 10 is a poor camera and care taken with exposure (which all cameras benefit from) enables the M10 to take nice photos 

Hell the M9 has terrible DR by modern standards, but reasonable EL (in context of the DR) and folks still love that camera.

Your +4stop M10 example could have ended up looking worse and 4 stops of highlights is a big ask…

[Adam Bonn]

3 minutes ago, Al Brown said:

It definitely would on my ex M240.

Exactly! WhenI had the 240 and M9 (which on paper have a huge difference in DR) I found the 240 DR was more in the shadows, pushing them hard just made banding (or green) in the shadows while the M9 gave me (and continues to give me, I still have it) some shadow recovery and some highlight recovery and this made the files nicer to use in post… OMMV

DR v EL in full effect!

 

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[Adam Bonn]

@M10R users

That 10R perspective correction thingamy that the regular 10 doesn’t have, is it worth using or just gimmicky?

[Jeff S]

Works in conjunction with Adobe… can be undone in PP, or just applied in PP in the first place.  FW also applies to the M10-P.

https://www.reddotforum.com/content/2021/01/leica-perspective-control-for-m10-r-m10-p-and-m10m/

Jeff