Help identify

[Leslie22]

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I have a silver 50 Cron M, It's either a type 1 or 2 ?

It's the bayonet model , focusing scale in feet only , E39 filter size , rigid. S/N 1705849

I believe this model was made between 1954 and 1968. Can anyone help with the "name" and perhaps the year 

Thanks

 

 

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[Siriusone59]

This might help you: https://reddotcamera.net/leica/serial-number-tool/

 

[pippy]

32 minutes ago, Leslie22 said:

I have a silver 50 Cron M, It's either a type 1 or 2......It's......rigid.

If it's 'Rigid' then it isn't a Type 1.

Serial number 1 705 XXX dates to 1959. Variations apart there were (essentially) two versions of the Rigid; the 'regular' and the 'Dual Range'. Post a snap; it will help us (and, by extension, you) let you know exactly what it is that you have.

Philip.

Edited November 9, 2022 by pippy

[pippy]

5 minutes ago, Artin said:

S/N. suggests V1 rigid 1959. 

The v1 50mm Summicron was collapsible. The first Rigid was the v2.

P.

Edited November 9, 2022 by pippy

[Leslie22]

Thank you all for your help , it looks like it's a Type 2 built in 1959

[pippy]

In which case, Art, we might have very different views on what, exactly, constitutes a 'Type'.

IMX the 50mm collapsible Summicron has always been known as the 'Type 1' and the first Rigid as the 'Type 2'. There are numerous sources which support this stance. I have never once come across any reliable source which lists the Rigid as a Type 1. If you have such sources then I'd be very interested to see them.

Not wishing to start a bunfight I assure you; the nomenclature of Leitz products would make even the most ardent academic blanche!

Philip.

[pippy]

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13 minutes ago, Leslie22 said:

Thank you all for your help , it looks like it's a Type 2 built in 1959

It will be a fantastic performer. Best of good fortune and enjoy the thing!

Philip.

[UliWer]

vor 21 Minuten schrieb Artin:

there are several versions of the type 1. Or V1. Including the collapsible , Rigid Chrome , Rigid Black, and the the DR. Are all same optical formula and all considered type 1 

No, the optical formula of the rigid (of course including the dual range version and also some cosmetic variants) Summicron differs a lot from the collapsible Summicron. You can easily see it on the results from both. The production of the collapsible ended when the rigid came out. Therefore it is correct to name the rigid Version 2 and the collapsible Version 1.

[pippy]

3 minutes ago, Artin said:

I stand corrected, in the wiki it is listed as type 1 . In other sources as type 2 . I don’t remember what it is listed as in the compendium. My copy is at my office at work. But you are most likely correct PHILIP 

Perfectly understandable confusion and I thank you for highlighting that discovering accurate information isn't always as simple as we all might wish it to be!

Thanks again.

Philip.

[UliWer]

vor 7 Minuten schrieb Artin:

the first photo we considered as V2.  Rigid black chrome Aluminuim case no tab Made in Germany 

the second is Tiger paw made in Canada.  And we used to call it as V3.  

The No. 2518421 is the 3. version as far as the optical design is concerned, as well as the Canadian shown on the second photo. I'd call them two variants of the same version.  This third version has a different optical design than the preceding rigid and of course the collapsible Summicrons. So it is the 3.rd optical design used for a 50mm Summicron.

I know that the "Versionology" of Leica lenses is a cause for endless debates. Though if lenses make sense, it's their optics and I think the optics alone justifies to speak of different versions. You may find different optics in lenses with identical looks (the first and second version of the 50mm Summilux is a famous example) and same optics in different housings (the second version of the 50 Summilux being another example).

Though even with the optics as the decisive criteria for differing lenses not everything is clear. The 90mm Summicron had so many little and big changes during its time, though in  many cases it is still not clear if and when the optics changed. 

So perhaps it would be better to stop numbering "versions" at all, and describe the lenses by criteria which are unmistakable - but of course the debate, what is unmistakable, would start again. 

Leica is just causing trouble by being in business for so long now. 

[Michael Geschlecht]

Hello Everybody,

The first photo is the 6 element 50mm Summicron made from 1969 to 1979. It comes in 2 body styles. The first, less common, is similar to the second  cosmetic version of the rigid 50mm Summicron in that it has knurled scallops with smooth ridges on the focusing ring. The later version, as in the photo, has a knurled focusing ring all of the way around. Both versions of this lens are numbered 11817. The lens head unscrews, like the rigid 50mm Summicron that preceded it, for use in various close up devices.

The second photo (A different optical formula.) is the earlier tiger's paw (The shape of the focusing tab.) version of the 6 element 50mm Summicron, 11819, which began production in 1979 & continues in production today, with changes to the lens mount. 

Best Regards,

Michael

Edited November 9, 2022 by Michael Geschlecht

[Michael Geschlecht]

Hello Leslie22,

Welcome to the Forum.

The WIKI at the top of this (And, every other) page says that your lens might be a screw mount or a close focusing model. Does it have a "flat piece" on the lens barrel near where it connects to the camera? Or perhaps a screw thread where it attaches to the camera? Or a bayonet mount to attach it to the camera?

Best Regards,

Michael

Edited November 9, 2022 by Michael Geschlecht

[UliWer]

vor 8 Stunden schrieb Michael Geschlecht:

The second photo (A different optical formula.) is the earlier tiger's paw (The shape of the focusing tab.) version of the 6 element 50mm Summicron, 11819, which began production in 1979 & continues in production today, with changes to the lens mount. 

Yes, you are right. I was wrong thinking the Canadian production belonged to „Version 3“ (11817).

[lct]

Matter of words. Version or variant? I just use "v" and leave it at that. Leica considers "versions" as optical ones generally whereas in the general use they can have a different number. How to distinguish the v4 we can see above (tiger paw) to the current v5 otherwise. Or the Summilux 50/1.4 v2 to the v3. For the latter, Leica uses the word "generation" and states it is a totally redesigned lens w/o calling it version 3, go understand that... Will be v3 for me forever and the current Summicron will stay v5 for the same reason. YMMV.

Edited November 9, 2022 by lct