Leica Prices/Cost Benefit Analysis

[Bill Sievers]

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I know this may sound like heresy on this forum, but I can honestly say that with the current price increases and the shortage of second hand lense , I would probably not purchase Leica equipment if I was starting from scratch.

 

Last year I bought an M8, second hand M7, second hand M6 and among other things 90, 50, 35, 28 and 21mm Leica lenses, including a Noctilux (all SH). I would be hard pressed to find these at the prices I paid. I feel like I made a great investment and am enjoying the cameras imensely. However, I am sure that this would not be possible in the current market and I doubt I would make the plunge.

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[wstotler]

LOL. It's expensive, for sure.

 

The only way I've been able to somewhat justify the expense is to *take more photos* because the price-per-photo drops with every snap.

 

Taking the first photo cost a little under $10K. The second photo was a $5K photo. And so on.

 

When I'm somewhere in the 5-cent-per-photo range (200,000 photos through my M8/glass) I'll be happier. It's going to take a while--about six years at my current rate of snapping.

 

-Will

[jaapv]

I know this may sound like heresy on this forum, but I can honestly say that with the current price increases and the shortage of second hand lense , I would probably not purchase Leica equipment if I was starting from scratch.

 

Last year I bought an M8, second hand M7, second hand M6 and among other things 90, 50, 35, 28 and 21mm Leica lenses, including a Noctilux (all SH). I would be hard pressed to find these at the prices I paid. I feel like I made a great investment and am enjoying the cameras imensely. However, I am sure that this would not be possible in the current market and I doubt I would make the plunge.

So guess why Leica introduced the Summarit range of lenses...

[GarethC]

Actually Will, sorry to sound like an accountant (which I must stress, I am not!!!) but unless you make a living out of your photos you'll never realize any benefit out of the cost so it is all lost money.

 

With that in mind, I have adopted the approach that while I am useless as a photographer, I have at least mastered the economics so I am spending like there is no tomorrow lol

 

If you're having any difficulties in that area talk to Guy Mancuso, he can show you how to get rid of alot of money in no time.

[cme4brain]

I know this may sound like heresy on this forum, but I can honestly say that with the current price increases and the shortage of second hand lense , I would probably not purchase Leica equipment if I was starting from scratch.

 

Last year I bought an M8, second hand M7, second hand M6 and among other things 90, 50, 35, 28 and 21mm Leica lenses, including a Noctilux (all SH). I would be hard pressed to find these at the prices I paid. I feel like I made a great investment and am enjoying the cameras imensely. However, I am sure that this would not be possible in the current market and I doubt I would make the plunge.

 

I have voigtlander glass which is plenty fine for my amateur status. I may acquire Zeiss glass, but until Sean Reid shows me a SIGNIFICANT difference, worth ten times the price (is it ten times better?), between CV/Z and Leica glass, I won't be paying those prices.

[Guest guy_mancuso]

Actually Will, sorry to sound like an accountant (which I must stress, I am not!!!) but unless you make a living out of your photos you'll never realize any benefit out of the cost so it is all lost money.

 

With that in mind, I have adopted the approach that while I am useless as a photographer, I have at least mastered the economics so I am spending like there is no tomorrow lol

 

If you're having any difficulties in that area talk to Guy Mancuso, he can show you how to get rid of alot of money in no time.

 

LOL but all the M stuff is holding it' s value very high and actually many folks are making a lot of money from the short supply, just look at Nocti prices and you could buy them a year ago for 2k . It's a investment in some ways and for the collectors i am sure there happy. i don't collect it but i can at least get most of my money back. If leica brings a M9 than all this stuff is ready for that also. Think long term these lenses will last longer than most of us.

[rwfreund]

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How about a cost/benefit analysis of a sports car.

It would lead you to (maybe) a mini when you really wanted a z4 or even a Ferrari.

Lawyers and accountants may actually deserve the ribbing they get.

-bob

[innerimager]

well cost benefit obviously,is a matter of benefit. Benefit can be determined by non economic factors, and I believe that the sheer pleasure we get from using this equipment counts for much of the benefit. But cost has meaning too, and I basically agree with Bill. I would not have been able to get anywhere near the kit I assembled at current price and availability of Leica lenses. It may have deterred me from jumping in at all. And while my benefit is heavily in joy of use, it doesn't hurt that my lens collection, mostly used, is probably worth over $5000 more than what I purchased it for last year.

[carstenw]

You cannot apply cost-benefit analysis where passion is involved.

[JWW]

In the years I've been using Leica equipment, the price to buy has always seemed high. But take the example of my M7 that I bought a few years ago and sold earlier this year when I got my M8. I sold it on Ebay for more money than I bought it for brand new. Same with a few lenses that I sold this year both new and used. In essence, all those pictures and use of the M7 for 3 years, I got paid money for.

 

Jan

[tom0511]

You cannot apply cost-benefit analysis where passion is involved.

 

I totally agree. If life was about cost-benefit- we all would buy and drive 10 year old cars, eat just bread and drink water, and live only in rented houses.

 

People spent so much money for all kind of things- so why not spend it for a hobby.

By the way some of my M-lenses I have had for nearly 20 years now.

 

The other thing I think we should remember:

If you buy like the really nice glass from Canon or Nikon, its also not really cheap.

[luigi bertolotti]

You cannot apply cost-benefit analysis where passion is involved.

 

That's the point !!! As an amateur photographer, there is no doubt that my skill DOES NOT require (nor deserve, maybe... ) a device like M8 and related lenses... and I admit that I never took a picture after that I could say to myself "hadn't I used my Leica... I wouldn't have succeeded in taking THIS" (while , of course, lot of times I thought that with some other camera the pic wouldn't have been so fine...).

 

But I like M8, like the gear... as other do in different issues... I decided to deprivate myself of something I could buy... and spend on it ... not an investiment by sure, even if my collection of oldies...maybe... retains or even grows its value... but it's not the goal.

[jothiratnam]

To add my 2¢ worth, with the probable exception of the M8 (which like most digital equipment is not likely to appreciate in monetary value), Leica equipment generally seems to me to be a sound financial investment. If you were to search on the 'net for instance, you would see that prices for many items (lenses, accessories &c) are really high, so if we're talking purely in monetary terms here, Leica equipment seems to me to be a very good investment: and that even before one takes into account the 'personal utility value' that owning Leica equipment procures for photo/Leica-passionnés. In addition, as a semi-professional photographer, I find that showing up with a Leica and some really old Leica lenses (along with my usual kit of course) really impresses some clients, and whatever the logic, and the rights and wrongs of the situation may be, has certainly won me a few extra jobs. So, though my 2¢ worth is unlikely to become 4¢ anytime in the forseeable future, I suspect that most of my Leica stuff will multiply in value faster than will most stock investment-portfolios. Jothiratnam

[Eoin]

If I were to count the cost of moving to M over the past year it would not make for pleasant reading. However 90% of the cost was funded by dumping my Canon equipment in favor of Leica. Now I have a lot less lenses, a lot less bulk, a lot less weight, a lot less people asking me what paper I shoot for, and a whole lot more personal satisfaction and enjoyment from photography. It may sound selfish but photography has been a life long hobby and about the only hobby which has stayed to course. Bugger the cost, I'm worth it !.

 

And there are still gems of value out there if you are prepared to wait and bide your time.

[Kent10D]

I totally agree. If life was about cost-benefit- we all would buy and drive 10 year old cars, eat just bread and drink water, and live only in rented houses.

 

Hey!

You're describing my life since I bought the M8!

Except the car. I can't afford a car. I was going to buy a car but I bought some UV/IR filters instead.

[j. borger]

A price rise does not mean you can sell your old stuff with a profit ... it all depends on demand & supply .... which changes over time .... try selling a LNIB 35 cron asph these days ... you can be happy to get 50-60% of the current retail price. And things will get worse with the summarits as an alternative.

I agree with Carsten ... Cost-Benefit is a rediculous concept in relation to photo gear (assuming amateure use)........

In general .. the only Leica gear that holds it's value is the gear you buy 2nd Hand ... with new lenses there a couple of exceptions ... (like the scarce 28mm summicron)

[jothiratnam]

To add my 2¢ worth, with the probable exception of the M8 (which like most digital equipment is not likely to appreciate in monetary value), Leica equipment generally seems to me to be a sound financial investment. If you were to search on the 'net for instance, you would see that prices for many items (lenses, accessories &c) are really high, so if we're talking purely in monetary terms here, Leica equipment seems to me to be a very good investment: and that even before one takes into account the 'personal utility value' that owning Leica equipment procures for photo/Leica-passionnés. In addition, as a semi-professional photographer, I find that showing up with a Leica and some really old Leica lenses (along with my usual kit of course) really impresses some clients, and whatever the logic, and the rights and wrongs of the situation may be, has certainly won me a few extra jobs. So, though my 2¢ worth is unlikely to become 4¢ anytime in the forseeable future, I suspect that most of my Leica stuff will multiply in value faster than will most stock investment-portfolios. Jothiratnam

 

Sorry, I forgot to add that almost all of my equipment, with the obvious exception of the M8, is used. It seemed a good way of getting into Leica when I was first toying with the idea of so doing, and has turned out, rather serendipitously, to be depreciation-proof. Jothiratnam

[highlander]

If I were to count the cost of moving to M over the past year it would not make for pleasant reading. However 90% of the cost was funded by dumping my Canon equipment in favor of Leica. Now I have a lot less lenses, a lot less bulk, a lot less weight, a lot less people asking me what paper I shoot for, and a whole lot more personal satisfaction and enjoyment from photography. It may sound selfish but photography has been a life long hobby and about the only hobby which has stayed to course. Bugger the cost, I'm worth it !.

 

And there are still gems of value out there if you are prepared to wait and bide your time.

Eoin, I am in exactly the same boat as you, except, I was with Nikon before Canon. However I am glad to say Leica now fits my requirements. Yes there are times I would gladly throttle Leica but with the help and support found in this forum I get the feeling of NOT being alone, and we all seem to love a good moan now and again. So after forty years plus of work and squandering countless amounts of money on hobbies I too believe both Leica and me are worth it.

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[Guest]

Hello fellow spenders of big sums

A Leica M system is impossible to value on a strickly cost benifits analysis.Its a bit like asking a Ferrari owner to justify the cost per mile when he fully realises he could get their just as fast in a VW golf.We all have differant reasons for parting with the cash.I enjoy using the M8 and the results I achieve with it .Guy M whose contribution to this forum give me a good deal of pleasure and information not only gets pleasure but is able to earn a living from the results.Women and cars have cost me a lot more money than M photography LOL. The most important thing to me is the pleasure I get from the system.Their is a price to pay for everything:)

Brian

[Guest guy_mancuso]

Thanks Brian and you really bring up a great point . From a Professional standpoint the ROI in leica is pretty darn high, i have to make a lot of money yearly from a business point of view to work and shoot leica. maybe what makes the most sense ROI wise is shooting Canon and or Nikon. Let's face it 9 lenses and 2 bodies is not a cheap investment. BUT and i think there is a big but here and this goes beyond the business end of it and more to my life long desires of being a shooter and this applies to the hobbyist as well, we enjoy photography and we enjoy shooting with gear that brings pleasure not only mechnically but visually and the biggy for me is the results. now how do you really put a number on something that ultimately gives you a enjoyable life and you get to have fun and make beatiful images. I really don't think you can. and the respones from Eoin for example and I quote "It may sound selfish but photography has been a life long hobby and about the only hobby which has stayed to course. Bugger the cost, I'm worth it !. " How the hell do you argue with that. You simply can't , and i think really that maybe the bottom line, your worth it.