M10 or Sl2s for professional work - Price very similar in 2022

[Nickow]

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Hi all 

I’m currently looking into buying a 2nd Leica, I have been shooting with a Leica m240 for many years now (personal use), and I believe my skill level has reached a point where I can make some money from photography.

I am perfectly happy with my 240 and intend to keep using it for the foreseeable future. 
My intention is to purchase an A camera and use the 240 as a back up.

as I am writing this I’m thinking I could just purchase a 2nd 240 an be happy, BUT by today’s standards it is very slow, buffer speed is the main issue. 

In the UK the sl2s is currently £4300, minus the family and friends voucher worth £550. 
A second hand M10 is between £3500 ~ £4200 depending on condition. 

How does one choose between the two, new vs old, feature packed vs traditional M?

My main concerns, will the sl2s be too clinical and not have the character of a M?
making my 240 shots look out of place.  
How important is dual card slots for professional work for security backups?
Cost, Even though both cameras cost around the same, I’m going to need to purchase the L to M adapter and spare batteries for either systems. 

Any advice or insights would be really appreciated. 
Thank you

 

[jaapv]

2 hours ago, Nickow said:

How important is dual card slots for professional work for security backups?

Very. Although not a professional, a Sandisk 256 GB card packed upon me in the middle of the African Bush a few days ago. Without the dual slot in my Panasonic S5 I would have lost hundreds of shots.

[jankap]

That is the answer! So are you in the African bush?

[Jeff S]

Some cameras have internal storage capability as opposed to a second card slot, e.g., M11 (64GB) and X2D (1TB). 
 

Jeff

[frame-it]

2 hours ago, Nickow said:

will the sl2s be too clinical and not have the character of a M?

depends on the lenses.

[jaapv]

 

12 minutes ago, jankap said:

That is the answer! So are you in the African bush?

How did you guess?

[LocalHero1953]

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To OP: what is the professional work that you want to do? My first instinct would be to get the SL2-S as the jack-of-all-trades camera that can do most things, especially with the VE 24-90 - events, weddings, portraiture - anything to do with people. On the other hand the size of a M and its lenses might be of critical usefulness to other types of professional work - landscapes, discreet photojournalism, travel editorial.

[jankap]

1 hour ago, jaapv said:

 

How did you guess?

Come home!

The time is coming to bake "Engadiner Nusstorte". The squirrels eat our walnuts already. In the tree!!

[jankap]

1 hour ago, LocalHero1953 said:

To OP: what is the professional work that you want to do? My first instinct would be to get the SL2-S as the jack-of-all-trades camera that can do most things, especially with the VE 24-90 - events, weddings, portraiture - anything to do with people. On the other hand the size of a M and its lenses might be of critical usefulness to other types of professional work - landscapes, discreet photojournalism, travel editorial.

It is better to have a spare one with you, in the case of the one you are using lands on the ground or just stops working.

[charlesphoto99]

4 hours ago, Nickow said:

...and I believe my skill level has reached a point where I can make some money from photography.

 

Oh really? Don't go quitting your day job quite yet, lol! And if you really are serious about making some money from your photography, then the last thing you need to be doing is spending money on new gear, esp on a whole new system (i.e SL). Not sure what type of pro work you were thinking of doing, but you may be served just fine with your 240, or perhaps a used Nikon D750 or Z7 and a couple of lenses for the price of a used SL2-S may serve your overall needs better. Just depends on the type of work. 

[M11 for me]

or Canon 🤗

[Nickow]

2 hours ago, charlesphoto99 said:

Oh really? Don't go quitting your day job quite yet, lol!

Yes really, There’s no intention to quit my job, just to make an extra pound or two in my free time. But yes you do have a valid point, I do believe my 240 would be adequate, I am more concerned about only owning one camera, and some freak event causing the camera to fail when it is needed.
I’ve been so focused on Leica I didn’t even consider looking at other brands. 
That could be a great option for now. 

[LocalHero1953]

4 minutes ago, Nickow said:

Yes really, There’s no intention to quit my job, just to make an extra pound or two in my free time. But yes you do have a valid point, I do believe my 240 would be adequate, I am more concerned about only owning one camera, and some freak event causing the camera to fail when it is needed.
I’ve been so focused on Leica I didn’t even consider looking at other brands. 
That could be a great option for now. 

But what are you hoping to be paid to shoot? Or are you going to take photos and sell them? Subject matter?

[Nickow]

4 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said:

To OP: what is the professional work that you want to do?

I have been selling landscape prints for a number of years, definitely not enough to live off but enough to warrant the effort. Recently I’ve followed a few wedding photographers for experience, based on the feed back I had It’s definitely something I should look into. 
I too think the sl2s would be a better option being the jack of all trades. But yes the compact size of the m is more appealing. It’s a decision I’m struggling to make. 

[charlesphoto99]

Well, I just spent $2500 on frames, mats and plexiglass to mount another show of prints (and that's for diy framing). Yes, that money would be sexier to spend on a new piece of gear, but where would that get me? So be careful to not put the cart before the horse. 

[sometimesmaybe]

9 hours ago, charlesphoto99 said:

And if you really are serious about making some money from your photography, then the last thing you need to be doing is spending money on new gear, esp on a whole new system (i.e SL).

i couldn't agree more with the above.

the consideration changes once the goal is to MAKE (as opposed to SPEND) money. i suspect most of us on this forum specialises in the latter 😏💸

 

 

[sinjun]

I'm sure you know that the SL series is quite different from the M series in size, handling, focussing etc., but has the advantage of working well M mount lenses compared with  other mirrorless systems. I think you've got to be pretty confident in your abilities to take on paid wedding work with any rangefinder, though there are some who do it successfully. So maybe go with the SL2S? It won't look any more clinical than whatever M lenses you use.

[shanefking]

If you’re getting started as a professional, I assure you that your 240 is sufficient, as my M9 served me quite well and I only upgraded to the M10 when the 9’s sensor corrosion started to interfere with portraits.  

It sounds like you’re looking for an excuse to get a new camera, and thats not a bad thing.  Its just that when you really need to upgrade, you’ll have a better idea of what you *need* as a professional.  Are you shooting food? Sports? Studio portraits?  The main questions are how much have you already invested in the system, and how much do you need autofocus?

And then of course is the fact that at the end of the day, almost any camera from the last 7 years is fantastic, and only the pickiest of pixel-peepers would notice any difference between images from a M10 or SL.  

The more important factor is personal preference.  In my case as a portrait photographer, others might think the SL is the ideal camera and M is a bad choice, but I love the M and its ability to accurately focus in almost total darkness, so the M is the right one for me.

 

I wish you the best of luck in your bid for becoming a professional photographer.  Its a wonderful thing to share your skills with others.

 

 

edit to add: regarding dual card slots, that sort of thing is only critical if you are doing something that must be captured on the first try at all costs & can not be reshot.  Sports, weddings, etc.  Products or Portraits, you can reliably get by with a single card slot.  Just be sure to format your cards and retire any that start to act glitchy as they age.

Edited October 11, 2022 by shanefking
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[NZDavid]

An interesting question and some good answers here.

I would add: How much do you like changing lenses? Yesterday, I used my M10 for an assignment getting some pictures of staff at a new rest home plus some internal room pics. I used the 21 for the room, the 35 for group shots, and a 50 for a three-quarters shot and close-up with a slightly defocussed background. Lighting, angles, details, people's expressions, everyone in focus and not blinking -- quite a lot to think about, no matter what camera you use. 

You really want to make it easy for yourself. If I was doing lots of people shots, I think the SL (or perhaps a Panasonic version) with fast AF would be easier, together with a 24-70 or 24-90 zoom. I am glad I didn't have to take photos at a recent conference. A lot of work in poor lighting conditions. The photographer used a Sony (not sure what kind).

I have enormous respect for wedding photographers. It looks incredibly demanding. 

The disadvantage of the SL, of course, is weight. I like using light gear. If you don't mind carrying it about, then worth checking it out. Why not try it out? For me, it would probably pay for itself after a while (and claimable off tax) but I'm not sure if I'd really need one. I'd be keen to know how it compares for IQ and all-round usability with the (now discontinued) CL.

If you prefer landscapes and occasional people or travel pics, then I reckon the M is perfect.

As for dual SD slots, modern cameras should be reliable. I had an SD card fail on me twice while using the M9. Once, on media trip to Germany and I thought I had lost all my pics at a glove and bag factory. I changed the card later and managed to retrieve the pics from the failed card. Second time, taking a pic of a house. I used a backup compact but the IQ was not as good. Perhaps, always have a backup SD card if necessary? 

 

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Hallo,

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[Olaf_ZG]

23 hours ago, NZDavid said:

 

I have enormous respect for wedding photographers. It looks incredibly demanding. 

 

 

You should and it is 😀

I have done quite some weddings myself and mostly i used primes, but had at least two bodies at hand to switch quickly. I simply could not rely on one FL only.

as I am a newby regarding Leica, I would not use the m for weddings. I am not good enough with a m yet. Therefore, I would prefer the SL for professional work. But that’s me.