Huss Posted October 4, 2022 Share #1  Posted October 4, 2022 Advertisement (gone after registration) It is a red dot M4-2, which is super rare as there were only a few.  The M4-P was the model that had the red dots (in the vulcanite). Thing is my camera doesn’t fall into the supposed serial # range of M4-2 red dots, as it is a high serial # , but it obviously is a Leica factory item as it has the vulcanite (I don’t know of any aftermarket places that can reskin in vulcanite) and the metal red dot is set into it, not stuck on top of it. Perhaps it was a one off, or perhaps a previous owner sent it to Leica to get that done?  Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/338979-help-with-a-red-dot-m4-2/?do=findComment&comment=4524736'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 4, 2022 Posted October 4, 2022 Hi Huss, Take a look here Help with a red dot M4-2. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
frame-it Posted October 4, 2022 Share #2 Â Posted October 4, 2022 email leica with the serial number, that should get you some of the history Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huss Posted October 4, 2022 Author Share #3 Â Posted October 4, 2022 21 minutes ago, frame-it said: email leica with the serial number, that should get you some of the history Thank you. Â Their regular customer service email? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frame-it Posted October 4, 2022 Share #4 Â Posted October 4, 2022 you can search these threads, the email address is mentioned several times [i don't remember it] Â Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamc Posted October 5, 2022 Share #5  Posted October 5, 2022 49 minutes ago, Huss said: Thank you.  Their regular customer service email? info@leica-camera.com recently took care of a serial # enquiry for me.  They forwarded it to the correct person, who repsonded 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted October 5, 2022 Share #6 Â Posted October 5, 2022 (edited) Hello Huss, The lens mount (Missing its seal) & its screws & the screw holding the lens release button, the strap eyelets, the frame preview lever & the film rewind release lever's screw all seem to have more wear than the vulcanite (And its screws.), the bottom plate & the top cover do. Best Regards, Michael Edited October 5, 2022 by Michael Geschlecht Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted October 5, 2022 Share #7 Â Posted October 5, 2022 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) I think that's the point about vulcanite Michael, it is very hard wearing and the camera will show more wear over the years unless the vulcanite has been chipped. It all looks like a sound camera to me, and didn't Leica stop using an embossed seal with the M4-2 anyway or was that just the M4-P? Regarding the red dot they are pretty rare but also they are super random. Some say it was the first 100 that had a red dot. You can imagine if they wanted to 'gild the lily' with cameras they sent out as demo models or review cameras adding a red dot may be something they'd do, just like sending out M9's with the flags of nations on them. Those M9's are rare but not particularly more valuable. The red dot seems more interesting though as folklore says it only appeared on black cameras because as we know there were no silver M4-2's, but then a silver M4-2 turns up with a red dot. And the 'first 100' also seems to be a moving target. So maybe they were dealer cameras initially intended for demonstration on the release of the M4-2 and others then crop up as dealers request a new demo camera from time to time? Either way an interesting variant. Edited October 5, 2022 by 250swb Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitroplait Posted October 5, 2022 Share #8 Â Posted October 5, 2022 Would someone know if there is a way to verify if this is a marriage? A serial number inside the body to check if it matches the top number, perhaps? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted October 5, 2022 Share #9 Â Posted October 5, 2022 1 hour ago, nitroplait said: Would someone know if there is a way to verify if this is a marriage? A serial number inside the body to check if it matches the top number, perhaps? You mean an M4-2 top on an M4-P body? I considered that but the lens release button is the style used on the M4-2, although it easy easy to swap. I suppose it does make it easy to fake if you have the parts but I don't think there is large increase in price between a standard M4-2 and a red dot version to make it worthwhile. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huss Posted October 5, 2022 Author Share #10  Posted October 5, 2022 14 hours ago, grahamc said: info@leica-camera.com recently took care of a serial # enquiry for me.  They forwarded it to the correct person, who repsonded Thank you Graham. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
willeica Posted October 5, 2022 Share #11  Posted October 5, 2022 22 hours ago, Huss said: It is a red dot M4-2, which is super rare as there were only a few.  The M4-P was the model that had the red dots (in the vulcanite). Thing is my camera doesn’t fall into the supposed serial # range of M4-2 red dots, as it is a high serial # , but it obviously is a Leica factory item as it has the vulcanite (I don’t know of any aftermarket places that can reskin in vulcanite) and the metal red dot is set into it, not stuck on top of it. Perhaps it was a one off, or perhaps a previous owner sent it to Leica to get that done?  Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Some of the later M4-2s had this red dot. I believe that I have seen some before. The Leica Archives query should get the answer you need. William Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc_braconi Posted October 6, 2022 Share #12 Â Posted October 6, 2022 I have seen them on black M5 too Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpattison Posted October 6, 2022 Share #13 Â Posted October 6, 2022 (edited) Dennis Laney in his Leica Collector's Guide 2nd editionJan 2005 Great Britain page 115, Â states under the heading "Variations"... "The earliest production cameras, Nos 1468001 - 1468091, and possibly 5 or 6 more, had the red Leitz disc logo on the front to the left of the lens release button." He goes on to say that five different forms of engraving on the M4-2 has been reported. (see next post) Which engraving version is yours? John Edited October 6, 2022 by jpattison question added Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpattison Posted October 6, 2022 Share #14  Posted October 6, 2022 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! M42a Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! M42a ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/338979-help-with-a-red-dot-m4-2/?do=findComment&comment=4526317'>More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted October 7, 2022 Share #15  Posted October 7, 2022 (edited) On 10/5/2022 at 3:33 AM, 250swb said: I think that's the point about vulcanite Michael, it is very hard wearing and the camera will show more wear over the years unless the vulcanite has been chipped. It all looks like a sound camera to me, and didn't Leica stop using an embossed seal with the M4-2 anyway or was that just the M4-P? Regarding the red dot they are pretty rare but also they are super random. Some say it was the first 100 that had a red dot. You can imagine if they wanted to 'gild the lily' with cameras they sent out as demo models or review cameras adding a red dot may be something they'd do, just like sending out M9's with the flags of nations on them. Those M9's are rare but not particularly more valuable. The red dot seems more interesting though as folklore says it only appeared on black cameras because as we know there were no silver M4-2's, but then a silver M4-2 turns up with a red dot. And the 'first 100' also seems to be a moving target. So maybe they were dealer cameras initially intended for demonstration on the release of the M4-2 and others then crop up as dealers request a new demo camera from time to time? Either way an interesting variant. Hello 250swb, 1 explanation could be: If there was a body with vulcanite intact & the black screws in the vulcanite untouched. And someone added a different top cover & a newer bottom plate to match. That could explain the screws in the lens mount showing wear. And the screw in the lens release button showing wear. And a frame line preview lever showing wear. And the screw in the film rewind release lever showing wear. Best Regards, Michael Edited October 7, 2022 by Michael Geschlecht Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huss Posted October 24, 2022 Author Share #16 Â Posted October 24, 2022 I wrote to Leica and they confirmed that my 150xxx M4-2 is a red dot. Â The dot not being a removable sticker, but metal badge set into the vulcanite. But they did not make a big deal about it, just saying you could order it with or w/o the red dot. As I have seen very few red dot M4-2s, it obviously is a rare camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrogallol Posted October 24, 2022 Share #17  Posted October 24, 2022 Strange that a red dot M4-2 is rare, and maybe sought after, when in other threads people are desperate to cover up or remove red dots ! Very rare invisible red dot version. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/338979-help-with-a-red-dot-m4-2/?do=findComment&comment=4544292'>More sharing options...
alan mcfall Posted October 25, 2022 Share #18  Posted October 25, 2022 My M4-2 with red dot. New in the box with seal. Not sure if it is real, but certainly interesting. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/338979-help-with-a-red-dot-m4-2/?do=findComment&comment=4544566'>More sharing options...
jpattison Posted October 25, 2022 Share #19 Â Posted October 25, 2022 Huss, See my post 14 above, regarding the engravings. Which are on your M4-2 ? Thanks, John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madNbad Posted October 26, 2022 Share #20 Â Posted October 26, 2022 (edited) On 10/25/2022 at 2:18 AM, jpattison said: Huss, See my post 14 above, regarding the engravings. Which are on your M4-2 ? Thanks, John Since it's my camera now, here's a few answers. It falls in the serial number range of #4 in the listing 1504XXX. It's Has the "Leitz" stamping on the top plate and "Canada" on the back. It has the steel strap lugs and the vulcanite feels like the same covering on my M4. It could have been a special order. Huss did hear from Leica about information pertaining to the red dot. Here is their answer :"There was a version of the Leica M4-2 with a Leica logo and without a Leica logo." That is the best answer to the mystery. Edited October 26, 2022 by madNbad 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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