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35 minutes ago, Matlock said:

Thats an interesting comment. Why?

'cause, along with the S line, the M9 has the very best color science Leica ever produced. Except for my Sigma dp-2 Foveon, I no longer shoot digital. But I might be a buyer here!

Edited by bags27
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I do love the rumour and conjecture about just how 'new' the new M6 is. It seems to happen with pretty much every Leica release, you read comments about 'different coatings' and 'better tolerances' etc. etc. with nothing factual to back it up.

Leica are known for their inaccurate and ambiguous statements. If the M6 was all new it would seem very daft not to make a big song and dance about it, and also announce that it replaces the MA/MP (why carry on producing models that you are struggling to get parts for especially when you have just released an all new all improved camera that is essentially identical). It just doesn't make any sense!

If companies that made some of the parts for Leica have ceased to exist then it would seem logical that Leica would ask another manufacturer to produce the part/s - here's the part can you replicate it for us?

It can't be that difficult to get an answer from the right person at Leica surely?

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13 hours ago, grahamc said:

To be truly comparative I think we also need an MP built from now onward.  This could be an expensive project based on the fact that only 3 of us care so far  😂

 

Not really.  If the new M6 matches an 'old' MP, that's all you need to know.  What we do know is the pressure plate is different.  Score one for the new M6!

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16 minutes ago, bags27 said:

'cause, along with the S line, the M9 has the very best color science Leica ever produced. Except for my Sigma dp-2 Foveon, I no longer shoot digital. But I might be a buyer here!

I found reds pretty bad with the M9.

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11 minutes ago, earleygallery said:

 

Leica are known for their inaccurate and ambiguous statements. If the M6 was all new it would seem very daft not to make a big song and dance about it, and also announce that it replaces the MA/MP (why carry on producing models that you are struggling to get parts for especially when you have just released an all new all improved camera that is essentially identical). It just doesn't make any sense!

Leica will not give out obsolescence notices until they’ve cleared out their inventory (remember the digital CL?) so that they don’t get stuck writing down materials they have on hand. Business management 101.

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6 hours ago, Al Brown said:

After y’all find out what was redesigned on the new M6 and how it differs from MP, what are you going to do with that ultra relevant and crucial data and how will it affect your photography?

#1, I don't like to be bull-sh!tted to.  It's just how I am.  So when someone says 'all new parts because we could no longer get old parts', I want to know if that is true.  Because that is a very real thing to current or future M-A or M-P owners, if parts are no longer available for those cameras.

#2  I  ordered the new M6, just because I love using film Leica Ms so much.  So I am not coming at this from the angle of just some random dood who just complains but will never actually be a customer.  I've handed over my cash and in return for that, I'd like to know what I am actually getting.  And I would be 100% ok if the M6 is 'just' an MP because I know the MP is proven. Again, that's just how I am.

#3 Being curious stimulates one's mind.  Aren't you curious about the world around you?  How things work?  Or do you take everything at face value?  Again, maybe that's just me.

#4 How will it effect my photography?  How does anything effect one's photography?  Why do we pick Leica to start off with?

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None of this would be an issue if Leica didn’t have a patchy record - it has a significant disconnect between its marketing (camera for life, priced on that basis) and its supply chain difficulties, especially when it comes to electronics.

So, when Leica says that there are some changes to the new M6 to deal with supply chain issues (unrelated to the original M6 - that was discontinued 20 years ago), rather than being a cause for celebration, it rings alarm bells for some.  I think that’s understandable.  If Leica announces that the electronics in the new M6 are retro-compatible with the original M6, I would imagine those who own an M6 with a dead meter would be very happy.  As the recipient of a replacement sensor for my Monochrom, I know how that feels.

Those supply chain issues can surely only be for the MP, and possibly M-A, parts.  Leica surely has no supply chain issues for the original M6 (they haven’t made one in 20 years).  So, the concern over the future of MP and M-A repairs is also understandable.  I bought my M-A after the M9 snesor debacle to avoid this very problem - not that I am experiencing or anticipating issues with my M-A …

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If Leica announced that yes, indeed, the new meter circuitry in the M6n (n is for “new”) can be also retrofitted into the M6 TTL and the MP, but it will cost 800-900 euro, would that make anyone happy? 
Or would it just be something else to complain about? 

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I have my 1954 iiif RD ST and red scale elmar in one hand and my MP with a 50mm summicron in the other.  Should I really be crapping myself about supply chains and repair problems just because a 'new' M6 is causing the paranoid to lose sleep, or should I just carry on using them as they are intended to be used?  

Life lesson #1:  Nothing is forever.

Life lesson #2: don't fall for marketing bs.  

They are just cameras, like the M6.

 

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1 hour ago, bags27 said:

'cause, along with the S line, the M9 has the very best color science Leica ever produced. Except for my Sigma dp-2 Foveon, I no longer shoot digital. But I might be a buyer here!

Quote

 

That is, of course, one opinion but others would disagree. However this is a film M thread.

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29 minutes ago, IkarusJohn said:

None of this would be an issue if Leica didn’t have a patchy record - it has a significant disconnect between its marketing (camera for life, priced on that basis) and its supply chain difficulties, especially when it comes to electronics.

So, when Leica says that there are some changes to the new M6 to deal with supply chain issues (unrelated to the original M6 - that was discontinued 20 years ago), rather than being a cause for celebration, it rings alarm bells for some.  I think that’s understandable.  If Leica announces that the electronics in the new M6 are retro-compatible with the original M6, I would imagine those who own an M6 with a dead meter would be very happy.  As the recipient of a replacement sensor for my Monochrom, I know how that feels.

Those supply chain issues can surely only be for the MP, and possibly M-A, parts.  Leica surely has no supply chain issues for the original M6 (they haven’t made one in 20 years).  So, the concern over the future of MP and M-A repairs is also understandable.  I bought my M-A after the M9 snesor debacle to avoid this very problem - not that I am experiencing or anticipating issues with my M-A …

If anything, the news makes me want to reverse course on my new M6 preorder and go back to the M-A. Leica should be able to hand-replicate the mechanical parts for as long as they're around as they do now for older M film cameras. As for meter circuit boards, well we all know what eventually happens to electronics.

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56 minutes ago, Al Brown said:

I wonder who started this supply chain scare rumor.

I think the discussion was sparked by a few responses from @jonoslackin this thread and this thread:

Quote

As I understand it . . the problem Leica have making the MP (and the M-A to a lesser extent) is that many of the parts were made by suppliers who no longer exist, so creating another camera with the same internals would be pretty stupid.

 

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Well, I'm not sure that the MP has a limited life span, although there are issues with parts as I understand it.

 

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If I was going to decide whether to buy an MP or an M6 right now I'd buy the M6 on the basis of what I've heard.

 

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1 hour ago, Al Brown said:

I wonder who started this supply chain scare rumor... All the Barnacks can still be repaired, all the M1's, M2's, all the M3's, M4's, etc. etc., Leica has all parts for their first digital camera M8 (albeit they do put in the M9 shutter that goes to 1/4000 if the former croaks) and can fix virtually everything but the M6 TTL, M7 and M9 (you know what parts I mean). So WHY ON EARTH would *anyone* be concerned about repairability of the younglings MP and M-A in the next 15-20 years?

I got a partial repair of my M3 when I sent it in for CLA - viewfinder prism delamination could not be repaired; Elmar 135/4, sent in for CLA (focusing problems) sent back untouched as “too old”, electronics failed and not able to be replaced - M6 meter; M8 LCD; M9 series sensors …

I’m not “paranoid”, “shitting myself” and I’m certainly out taking picutres and enjoying my equipment.  But, I have 3 M cameras, a dozen or so M lenses, an SL, TL2 and 3 L mount lenses and an R mount lens.  I imagine I will have some of those cameras die on me and perhaps I’ll replace at least one of them (I’m only 63).  It’s quite a lot tied up in Leica gear, spent in the expectation that (1) it would last, and (2) it would be supported, as you point out.

Who started this?  Leica.

Edited by IkarusJohn
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39 minutes ago, IkarusJohn said:

 

....I’m not “paranoid”, “shitting myself” and I’m certainly out taking picutres and enjoying my equipment.......

....Who started this?  Leica.

24 hours ago your concerns may have been dormant.  This whole debate has mushroomed out of nothing more than solid than supposition and conclusion-jumping, that's forums for you, and fuelled in part on here by a beta-tester who obviously knows little more than anyone else outside of Leica about what the future holds, parts requisitioning and supply or even if there is a genuine meaningful commitment to long-term servicing and repairability.

Given the litany of issues that you personally seem have experienced with your Leica cameras and lenses, it would seem a little naiive to place much faith in Leica honouring their own marketing hype for support in the longer term. No apologies for the scepticism.

I'm older than you and I'm only hoping for maybe 15-20 more years at best, so I guess I'm less likely to be too bothered by it all.  If one breaks, I'll buy another.   

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