New Leica M6 Film Camera

[hdmesa]

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2 hours ago, mujk said:

Fully agree. I don't see why Leica would radically redesign a mechanical part or assembly only because they need to change the supplier unless there were some really big incentive to do so, like unavailability of a crucial raw material or excessive cost. Even in that case they would probably just do a minor redesign so that the part/assembly would still be compatible with the rest of the mechanism, meaning that the new one could probably be used as a spare for MPs as well.

The situation is different for the electronics, i.e. the metering circuitry, where the unavailability of a certain chip could cause a major redesign. But even in that case I guess it would be possible to design new circuit boards that would fit into the same space as the previous ones and have the same external connections (light meter sensor, ISO dial position indicator, speed dial position indicator, display LEDs, power switch and battery compartment). Meaning that they could be used to replace the original ones in existing MPs. 

But the new parts would not necessarily be suitable as spares for old M6s and M6TTLs, although it would be really great if they did.

What you or I think makes sense has zero bearing on reality. You've been informed in this thread as to the nature of the new M6 – don't believe if you don't want to, but that won't change anything.

[grahamc]

Did anyone see M6-2 campaign poster boy Joe Greer’s photos from Wetzlar this week with his brand new MP "straight out of the box" ? He doesn’t seem to worried about the internals or serviceability and is probably already out taking great photos.  Also proves that MP is still the best and the ultimate goal of the hipster community 😉   

Edited October 22, 2022 by grahamc

[archive_all]

2 hours ago, logan2z said:

You may have just single-handedly killed off MP sales - at least where those who read this forum are concerned 

Yea, that's me right now. This adds a new factor as I was looking for an MP or M-A and now it sounds like I should at least wait for more info. Although, not sure I want the M6 look so that would settle it unless the M6 turns out to have much higher quality if that's even possible.

[hdmesa]

2 hours ago, Huss said:

Leica's promotional 'build' video shows the M6 being made just like the MP before it, using the same old machinery they've always used, doing the same things.

Not sure where these new tolerances are coming from, seeing being built using the same machinery...

I actually do NOT want the M6 to made from new parts, as the MP is proven and reliable over the years.  No need to mess with it.  An all new 'M6' opens the possibilities to mechanical issues down the line.

I will stand by my offer.  I will be willing to have my new M6 stripped down by DAG to see if it is the same camera mechanically as the MP.  If others are willing to chip in on the cost involved.

 

 

You don't have to tear one apart to see this small difference – rather than use the screwless M6 pressure plate, they redesigned the MP pressure plate (or designed a new one) with recessed screws. If they were "cash grabbing" as some have called it and just re-did an MP with M6 engraving, then why bother with a small improvement like this? I lean toward thinking they made all kinds of small improvements as they went. But if they did, it doesn't mean the MP/M-A are any less than they were before, but it could mean the new M6 is better in some ways.

 

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Edited October 22, 2022 by hdmesa

[Huss]

40 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

You don't have to tear one apart to see this small difference – rather than use the screwless M6 pressure plate, they redesigned the MP pressure plate (or designed a new one) with recessed screws. If they were "cash grabbing" as some have called it and just re-did an MP with M6 engraving, then why bother with a small improvement like this? I lean toward thinking they made all kinds of small improvements as they went. But if they did, it doesn't mean the MP/M-A are any less than they were before, but it could mean the new M6 is better in some ways.

 

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Interesting!  Maybe that's where it ended...

The simplest way would be to get hold of a workshop manual.  Not the owner's manual.  And compare to that of the MP.

[hdmesa]

3 minutes ago, Huss said:

Interesting!  Maybe that's where it ended...

The simplest way would be to get hold of a workshop manual.  Not the owner's manual.  And compare to that of the MP.

Hah, yeah maybe they were just as tired of the screws scratching their film as I was, and that's all they did.

[Huss]

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8 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

Hah, yeah maybe they were just as tired of the screws scratching their film as I was, and that's all they did.

did it really scratch your film?  I've never had that issue w any of my Ms, including MP and M-A.  My MP has film in it so I couldn't check, but my M-A seems to not have the screws recessed like that.

[hdmesa]

25 minutes ago, Huss said:

did it really scratch your film?  I've never had that issue w any of my Ms, including MP and M-A.  My MP has film in it so I couldn't check, but my M-A seems to not have the screws recessed like that.

Not really sure, but something was. The lab swore up and down it wasn’t them. They thought maybe I wasn’t fully engaging the release lever before rewinding.

It only showed up on the black and white film, both on the lab scans and the small prints.

Edited October 23, 2022 by hdmesa

[lmans]

Given the return to film, as many are doing...especially the younger crowd....  When is Canon going to bring back the AE-1 and Nikon the film Nikon and Olympus (whomever owns them now) the OM-1 etc.... Why not? If film is taking off, then those companies can bring back a film camera as well and it will be a heck of a lot cheaper than the M6, thus taking the market. 

[Huss]

21 minutes ago, lmans said:

Given the return to film, as many are doing...especially the younger crowd....  When is Canon going to bring back the AE-1 and Nikon the film Nikon and Olympus (whomever owns them now) the OM-1 etc.... Why not? If film is taking off, then those companies can bring back a film camera as well and it will be a heck of a lot cheaper than the M6, thus taking the market. 

I think the problem is people expect Leicas to be pricey, but could not comprehend buying an AE-1 for $1500 (or whatever it would cost now if made new) when they can get one for $100.

When Nikon last sold the FM10 - which was a plasticky thing made by Cosina - in its last days the price w kit lens was almost $700. If I recall correctly.  If that plastic nugget was $700, how much would a metal FM be?

[Michael Geschlecht]

Hello Everybody,

Between 1954 & 1966 the M3, the first "M" camera, went thru many changes in the range/viewfinder, the shutter, etc.

For a manufacturer of anything mechanical, this is not unusual. Hopefully, as with the M3, the changes in the new M6 will be backwards compatible as much as possible. Keeping in mind that Leitz/Leica have, to a significant extent, made forward & backward compatibility a part of their "mindset".

Best Regards,

Michael

[Crem]

4 hours ago, grahamc said:

I’m in on this if you are serious. After almost 70 pages of this thread it’s about time we had something factual to talk about 😂

I previously committed $1 USD. I’m willing to up that to $10 USD. @Huss is now only $490 away from his goal. Time to start a Kickstarter 😂

[grahamc]

22 minutes ago, Crem said:

I previously committed $1 USD. I’m willing to up that to $10 USD. @Huss is now only $490 away from his goal. Time to start a Kickstarter 😂

I'll match your $10 and raise you $1.     That's all I can afford with these exchange rates and all the Leica product announcements  

[ktmrider2]

I had an M6TTL and a classic M6 before that.  I remember when the MP was introduced and part of Leica's marketing was that the MP takes care of "all" the design defects of the M6 like using a brass vice zinc top plate or fixing the flare in the M6 finder (which was caused by fewer parts in the finder from the M42 or M4P in an attempt by Leica to save money).  

I never really saw much difference between the classic M6 and MP except for the nostalgia of the rewind knob vice the crank.  And simply wrote it off as Leica's attempt to make more money (if memory serves there was a good size price jump between the M6TTL and the MP).  I have been reading the inputs here and it seems we are all just regurgitating arguments from 2002 or whenever the MP premiered.  

Guess it goes to show there really is not anything new under the sun.  I don't have a dog in this fight as I will be sticking with either an M2 or an M4.

Edited October 23, 2022 by ktmrider2

[Huss]

1 hour ago, Crem said:

I previously committed $1 USD. I’m willing to up that to $10 USD. @Huss is now only $490 away from his goal. Time to start a Kickstarter 😂

Let’s wait until the camera gets delivered before I hold the hat out!  If it’s anything like the 35 APO, it could be anytime in the next decade.

[Huss]

36 minutes ago, ktmrider2 said:

I had an M6TTL and a classic M6 before that.  I remember when the MP was introduced and part of Leica's marketing was that the MP takes care of "all" the design defects of the M6 like using a brass vice zinc top plate or fixing the flare in the M6 finder (which was caused by fewer parts in the finder from the M42 or M4P in an attempt by Leica to save money).  

I never really saw much difference between the classic M6 and MP except for the nostalgia of the rewind knob vice the crank.  And simply wrote it off as Leica's attempt to make more money (if memory serves there was a good size price jump between the M6TTL and the MP).  I have been reading the inputs here and it seems we are all just regurgitating arguments from 2002 or whenever the MP premiered.  

Guess it goes to show there really is not anything new under the sun.  I don't have a dog in this fight as I will be sticking with either an M2 or an M4.

I’ve used a whole bunch of them, and apart from the way you load the film in an M2/3, after a few seconds they all really are the same in use and in feel.  It’s just tiny things that differentiate them.  Even the M7 - while that is an outlier because of the AE, it still feels pretty much the same as my M4-2 or MP or M-A.  Especially if you use it in manual mode.  One camera may feel a little smoother than the other, but they all feel smooth and are a delight to use.

The only exception to feel and usage is the M5.  That one really is different to the others, and while it is great, it obviously was not what was wanted which was why they went back to the M4-2.

Leica isn’t stupid.  They already learnt the lesson with the M5, so for all those clamoring (including me!) for something advanced there really isn’t actually any demand for that.

I recently bought an M4 on a whim.  Just because.  When it showed up after a few seconds I thought why did I do this? It was just like my other Ms!  Even though those weren’t any M4, but an M4-2, or M-A or MP.  As luck would have it the camera had a defective shutter so I returned it guilt free!

Do I have a point? Maybe.. we pretty much are just bickering over awesome gear.

[grahamc]

38 minutes ago, Huss said:

Let’s wait until the camera gets delivered before I hold the hat out!  If it’s anything like the 35 APO, it could be anytime in the next decade.

To be truly comparative I think we also need an MP built from now onward.  This could be an expensive project based on the fact that only 3 of us care so far  😂

 

[alphonse2501]

10 hours ago, colint544 said:

Does anyone know if the new M6 still has the plastic frame counter gears fitted to the MP? 

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I found one partial unassembled unit from Twitter.

No photo for reversed part of counter disk yet. At least the base plating looks identical. 

[mujk]

11 hours ago, hdmesa said:

What you or I think makes sense has zero bearing on reality. You've been informed in this thread as to the nature of the new M6 – don't believe if you don't want to, but that won't change anything.

Sorry, but I still don't understand why parts of the new M6 could not be compatible with the MP, even though Leica marketing claims that the M6 is an all new camera. Just compare the images of the two with top plate removed:

https://twitter.com/Ffordesphoto/status/1583087017461616640?s=20&t=kkA17pzjp7C_m4ATfy-rkA

http://feuerbacher.net/photo/repair/LeicaMP/LeicaMP.html

For example electronics boards are very similar.

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Hallo,

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[LocalHero1953]

2 hours ago, alphonse2501 said:

I found one partial unassembled unit from Twitter.

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No photo for reversed part of counter disk yet. At least the base plating looks identical. 

Now we need a comparable photo of the MP and old M6.

Edit: OK, just seen the previous post.

Edited October 23, 2022 by LocalHero1953