Selling all my film cameras for an M11, arriving tomorrow

[MCF74]

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I've exclusively shot film for the last 6 years (even ran a community darkroom) but this week, I decided to sell all of my kit and dive head first into one camera, and one alone – the M11. That should read 'have sold' but, well, 0% interest finance is a winner, so, er, I'm selling. My prized Leica MP 0.85 is for sale, my 500CM, everything. Why? Well, I sorta started receding from using the darkroom this year and, having recently checked out the price (of colour film in particular), it's increasingly a burden having to use film. I feel like I've served my time (I grew up with film cameras too) and know what a black and white image should look like, and how to handle colours enough to make my digital images work (not that I'll be wanting to mimic film at all). An upcoming international trip in October would've resulted in about €200 worth of film and processing, and increasing nervousness about running film through more modern airport scanners.

So, I chiefly decided for the M11, but did skirt with the idea of a cheaper M10-R (maybe second hand). The principle reasons I chose the M11 were, I think, sound. Looking at how long the M9, M240 etc have endured as workable cameras, I reckon the M11, all being well, can last a decade. That's not a terrible investment on those terms for something I'll be using pretty much every day of my life during that time. The internal memory and USB charging (and reported excellent battery life) are a clear winner for me too as I plan to travel a lot over the next few years (being a new empty nester). 

I'd be interested to hear from anyone who's made a similar decision about film-to-digital; and, reasons for choosing the M11 over the M10-R. The 40mp would've been more than fine.

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[jakontil]

I have shot less with films since the price increase, well not that too long but yeah, i limit myself with colour though still exclusively shooting BW with ilford and yeah always develop myself most of the time

i didnt have the guts to rid all of them and live only by the digital, still have my M films and hasselblad 503 cx, especially the latter, being a medium format is advantageous

between the M11 and M10R right now, well i still keep the M10R merely because it was the black paint version, i just love it that i havent thought of parting with it, besides its 40 mpx  actually making it a second digital body alongside my M11 or just simply a backup

right now unless u r after something in particular, let’s say the black paint version, in my case the M11 got the edge by having usb c port and a longer battery live, apart from having a better optional evf, though i rarely use it unless i have to like macros for instance

That being said, i love my black paint m10r, and they both share similarities in image quality, as a side note, i use 36 mpx on my m11

[MCF74]

Nice to know the same line of thinking is sound in terms of USB C and battery life.

A big test for me is if I can get a similar feel to images out of the sensor, as I would with the 500CM (cropping to 1:1 ratio too). I guess the lens will dictate this largely too, bit I'm sure 60mp will help as well.

Speaking of lenses, I currently have the VC 35mm f1.4 SC (I really liked this for the flatness for B&W film) and did use it on an M262 to good effect. I'll be investing in either the VC APO 50mm & likely replace the 35mm with a Leica one. Or, just invest in the Summilux Asph 50mm only. That decision can wait though until I've got used to the M11. 

[jakontil]

In terms of details im pretty sure it will just as good as the 500CM, but im a portrait photographer so I usually rely on shallow DOF which the 503cx gives best

[wizard]

vor 51 Minuten schrieb MCF74:

An upcoming international trip in October would've resulted in about €200 worth of film and processing, ...

I certainly do not want to spoil the pleasant anticipation of your M11, it is a great camera, no doubt (I do not own one yet). But I always wonder why people sell their film gear and spend roughly € 8000 on an M11 to save € 200 worth of film and processing. You would have to make around 40 international trips to end up with € 8000 worth of film and processing costs 😉. 

[MCF74]

8 minutes ago, wizard said:

I certainly do not want to spoil the pleasant anticipation of your M11, it is a great camera, no doubt (I do not own one yet). But I always wonder why people sell their film gear and spend roughly € 8000 on an M11 to save € 200 worth of film and processing. You would have to make around 40 international trips to end up with € 8000 worth of film and processing costs 😉. 

There's other reasons too, of course. Time being the biggest factor (of which I have a limited supply). Time (& access) in the darkroom processing (if I'm not spending the money to process). Time scanning (I'm a designer so make a lot of books from my work – scanning is a horrible task... again if I'm not paying for it). So it's way beyond the 200 quoted in actual value if I value my time too. Sitting at a computer, editing will eat up some time for sure... but I don't do much editing to images anyway, save for cropping and minor corrections. 

I thought exactly the same as you too until recently. But, another factor is, not only will I be travelling a lot, but moving abroad too, so this would limit access to a darkroom. I wouldn't trust a lab to develop my B&W the way I do/did with Pyro! 

Edited August 31, 2022 by MCF74

[Erato]

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1 hour ago, MCF74 said:

 

I shot film at least 25 years. I love the reversal outcome the most.

Nowadays, I am at around 90% digital and 10% films ratio. M11, M10-R, M10M and M10-P are great and more than enough in most of the cases. After all, gears is an extension to me. 

The primary difference is the workflow of post-process, in the meanwhile the grain is not the same anymore as you may noticed. 

My advice would be a suitable display which is a must-have optimization if you're not intend to print it out. Because the second best choice with downgraded outcome could be just like an entry level scanner. On the other hand, if you'd still try to enveloping printing process, things like Eizo could be a best fit.

No matter what camera body that you'd prefer, I believed that you could handle it along with certain learning curve relevant to your domain knowledge and domain know-how.

I wish you a pleasant journey to the binary world, and more importantly, keep your MP if possible.

 

Edited August 31, 2022 by Erato

[OR120]

Although I've been shooting digital for years now - I can't let go of my old IIIF w/summitar and a couple other non Leica film bodies. I still have several bricks of film (along with quite a few packs of polaroid) chilling in a refrigerator in my basement. Can't let it go. I doubt I'll shoot it but - can't let it go. Sorry - I left out the Leica Focomat V35 w/40mm lens - that's still down there too!

Enjoy your new M11!!

Edited August 31, 2022 by OR120
sp

[MCF74]

3 minutes ago, OR120 said:

Although I've been shooting digital for years now - I can't let go of my old IIIF w/summitar and a couple other non Leica film bodies. I still have several bricks of film (along with quite a few packs of polaroid) chilling in a refrigerator in my basement. Can't let it go. I doubt I'll shoot it but - can't let it go. 

Enjoy your new M11!!

Yeh, I'm being bloody minded about it for that reason. If I let sentimentalism set in, I'll regret it. Though I really did think about a IIIc or IIIg as a good alternative just-in-case-one-last-time backup (and I love a good, well kept Summitar for sure!)

Edited August 31, 2022 by MCF74

[Jeff S]

I transitioned fully from film to digital in 2009, when I decided not to build another home darkroom following another house move (four darkrooms over the prior 20+ years). The camera I bought was a Leica M8.2 (and later a used M8.2 back-up), and those served well for home and travel, having since been replaced with M10 generation models (and an M(9)Monochrom). One thing that never changed, however, was making my own prints. Only the tools and workflow changed; that was the biggest learning curve and time commitment.
 

There are many capable cameras these days to facilitate a successful digital transition, depending on specific user needs and tastes. But I’ve never been an early adopter for digital gear, preferring to let others work out the kinks (hence skipping the M8 for the M8.2).  But to each his/her own.

Jeff

[MCF74]

Just now, Jeff S said:

I transitioned fully from film to digital in 2009, when I decided not to build another home darkroom following another house move (four darkrooms over the prior 20+ years). The camera I bought was a Leica M8.2 (and later a used M8.2 back-up), and those served well for home and travel, having since been replaced with M10 generation models (and an M(9)Monochrom). One thing that never changed, however, was making my own prints. Only the tools and workflow changed; that was the biggest learning curve and time commitment.
 

There are many capable cameras these days to facilitate a successful digital transition, depending on specific user needs and tastes. But I’ve never been an early adopter for digital gear, preferring to let others work out the kinks (hence skipping the M8 for the M8.2).  But to each his/her own.

Jeff

Hi Jeff... that's good to know. I've often held my nose up at digital b&w prints compared to quality wet prints, but it's all in the vision and processing and I'm sure I was being snobbish. I mingle with some well revered photographers who happily interchange between 8x10, digital full frame, and medium format... often for the same project, and I have a hard time knowing which image was which format sometimes (with a few notable exceptions). 

[Jeff S]

6 minutes ago, MCF74 said:

Hi Jeff... that's good to know. I've often held my nose up at digital b&w prints compared to quality wet prints, but it's all in the vision and processing and I'm sure I was being snobbish. I mingle with some well revered photographers who happily interchange between 8x10, digital full frame, and medium format... often for the same project, and I have a hard time knowing which image was which format sometimes (with a few notable exceptions). 

I have good, and mediocre, examples from both processes (film ranging from 35mm to large format). They are different, but when all the elements come together, I get great pleasure from both, especially when I complete the cycle of a worthy pic/print by matting and framing. Having studied and collected vintage prints (silver and platinum) for decades, I know when I’ve failed to achieve my goal. The flexibility and convenience of digital processing, however, at least gives me a fighting chance, as my darkroom skills were often challenged.

Jeff

[MCF74]

That's a really good point, skill in printing in the darkroom... something I can't claim to be a master at due to impatience mainly. Keeping this on topic concerning M11... is every confident that the issues are ironed out with the initial launch versions? I read a lot of posts on here and elsewhere about teething problems (taken with a small pinch of salt knowing that generally this will be the place for issues to be aired.)

[Jeff S]

There are many discussions regarding M11 teething issues…. search or just scan the first few pages here.  Sure they’ll get resolved, eventually, and many no doubt have not experienced any.  But I typically am not an early adopter, particularly when there’s a proven alternative that still satisfies my particular preferences. The M10 Monochrom and M10-R (BP) currently do that for me.  But there are never guarantees.  The M9 teething issues were well sorted..until corrosion issues surfaced.  Even though I’m not an early adopter, I still carry insurance and, if an important trip, a back-up. Diff’rent strokes…
 

Jeff

[sarkleshark]

Excellent choice.  Enjoy!

[grahamc]

Would it be feasible to keep an M film body ?

if so I think this is something to strongly consider. It would be awful to regret this, as did I when sold much of my vinyl record collection  

[trickness]

Keep the MP, which will continue to rise in value  and be relevant in 20 years, unlike the 11. Get a used M10R, if you’re patient they can be had for around $6k. The 11 is kind of hot garbage right now with glitches and bricking.

[MCF74]

12 minutes ago, trickness said:

Keep the MP, which will continue to rise in value  and be relevant in 20 years, unlike the 11. Get a used M10R, if you’re patient they can be had for around $6k. The 11 is kind of hot garbage right now with glitches and bricking.

I love the idea of keeping it, but... I don't see myself having the inclination or access to a darkroom for the next 3-4 years. And, the MP is great, but these things are just tools... if I really want to, I'd be happy enough in the future with an M2 or M3

M11 is arriving today and will be assessed for hot garbage properties! 

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[Jon Warwick]

22 hours ago, MCF74 said:

A big test for me is if I can get a similar feel to images out of the sensor, as I would with the 500CM (cropping to 1:1 ratio too). I guess the lens will dictate this largely too, bit I'm sure 60mp will help as well.

 

Resolution at 60mp is ample to exceed a drum scanned 120 film, especially C41.

Regarding “similar feel to images” off a 500CM, I think that is massively influenced by lens choice and especially your post processing. I am often striving to emulate a filmic look for my final prints, given I moved pretty late to digital from mainly 120 and 4x5 film. I have a portrait of my daughter that I’ve reprocessed various times from an SL2 + SL 50 APO. My initial effort was disappointing, with the print to my eyes looking “digital” (a mix of being completely grainless and more acuity - despite sharpening at zero in ACR - than I’ve ever seen off film, even off my 5x4). But  a subsequent effort is bang in line with my taste, thanks both to establishing the correct grain level in Photoshop that works for my print size and also adding “Blur” in filters which has calmed down the digital edge-sharpness of her eyes and hair to something I find significantly closer to a filmic look. None of this notably sacrificed fine detail either, but it’s a much calmer and more cinematic rendering now.

Edited September 1, 2022 by Jon Warwick

[trickness]

2 hours ago, MCF74 said:

I love the idea of keeping it, but... I don't see myself having the inclination or access to a darkroom for the next 3-4 years. And, the MP is great, but these things are just tools... if I really want to, I'd be happy enough in the future with an M2 or M3

M11 is arriving today and will be assessed for hot garbage properties! 

Congrats! Enjoy it and use it in good health. Hopefully you get one of the good ones