Visoflex 020 vs Visoflex 2 with M10

[snapwell]

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Folks -

So, bought a Viso 2 for my M10-P. Soon realized that, although it’s a 3.7mp display, it only functions as a 2.4mp display with the M10.

This manifests as a smaller image. A LOT smaller. More eye relief than you may ever use, but for instance, with a 50 its image is WAY SMALLER than what you see through the .73 finder. 
Went back to Tamarkin in Chicago today and compared it with the 020, where the image size is slightly larger than the one through the optical finder.

Way, way better for me. I mean, with a 21 everything was so small I could hardly make out what the heck was in the frame. 
Now, with the 020 (where 2.4mp fills the field) no problem.

 

[jslabovitz]

Thanks for describing this. I've been tempted to buy one, or find a dealer with one to try. I wouldn't mind some eye relief vs. my 020, but it sounds like the Viso 2 would be too much.

[rramesh]

I had the Visoflex 020 for a while on my M10-P. While it was good for framing, I never loved it. Kept sliding off the hot shoe and felt that the build was rather flimsy. When the Visoflex 2 was announced, I was excited.

Build quality seemed better. However, the functionality was a step down. No more GPS and a smaller viewing area. Plus a more expensive price point.

I did not buy it.

The rangefinder is sufficient for now together with the LCD screen.

[overexposed]

i compared the 020 vs. the 2 at my local dealer and decided to buy neither, for now.

the cut, so to speak, is just to heavy on the 2, much nicer with the 020. but that one simply is too ugly

[snapwell]

For me, shooting landscapes with bright sun at my back with ultra-wides and macro stuff, especially low angle, are the main reasons I’ll be using one. Sometimes for detailed shot review in the field in bright sun, I suppose.

Neither is what I’d call pretty, although the 2 is definitely less offensive than the 020. Mine just goes onto the camera for these occasional applications, then back in bag.

[darylgo]

There are two benefits of the 2 for M10 use.  Lower profile, makes it easier to put into a bag and the shutter speed dial is more visible.  Other small advantages are metal vs. plastic and the body can sit upside down to remove the battery or card.  

The Nikon F3 when introduced had a finder with greater magnification than the later HP finder, yet the HP was sold as greater eye relief.  The non-HP was discontinued, yet it had the greater magnification similar to the M10/020 viso combination.   

[rramesh]

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16 hours ago, darylgo said:

The Nikon F3 when introduced had a finder with greater magnification than the later HP finder, yet the HP was sold as greater eye relief.  The non-HP was discontinued, yet it had the greater magnification similar to the M10/020 viso combination.   

The Nikon finder was mechanical, The Visoflex 2 is digital and functionality like Live View benefit from a larger screen.

Edited June 15, 2022 by rramesh

[darylgo]

20 minutes ago, rramesh said:

The Nikon finder was mechanical, The Visoflex 2 is digital and functionality like Live View benefit from a larger screen.

For the M10 it is a smaller screen size area, less magnification, that is why some have posted here they prefer the 020.  The F3HP started Nikons use of lower magnification eye relief finders always promoted as a better finder yet we see here (Viso 2) it was at a cost of magnification.   

[jakontil]

I wish the 020 can be used in m11, i have it seldom use it only for occasionally like macro

[M11 for me]

With M11 and Visoflex2 you probably always just use the Visoflex. Thats my situation anyway since I have that new tool when I do Lanscape with 28mm and wider. Its difficult to explain why I favor the Visoflex. But just think of the histogram information that I use for proper exposure. Its a question of just trying out.

Edited June 15, 2022 by M11 for me

[darylgo]

7 minutes ago, M11 for me said:

With M11 and Visoflex2 you probably always just use the Visoflex. Thats my situation anyway since I have that new tool when I do Lanscape with 28mm and wider. Its difficult to explain why I favor the Visoflex. But just think of the histogram information that I use for proper exposure. Its a question of just trying out.

I go back and forth, when using the rangefinder it is beautiful to look through a crystal clear window and I prefer it.   

[jakontil]

My habit is through the rangefinder, cant love enough the evf unless i have to like when bracketing and scanning my negs

[M11 for me]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb darylgo:

I go back and forth, when using the rangefinder it is beautiful to look through a crystal clear window and I prefer it.   

That is absolutely right. Such a clear image in the OVF. Its great and nothing can beat it. On the other hand in the EVF you see what you will get. That is actually my point. I can adjust the exposure better and more precisely than in the OVF. 

[snapwell]

23 hours ago, darylgo said:

There are two benefits of the 2 for M10 use.  Lower profile, makes it easier to put into a bag and the shutter speed dial is more visible.  Other small advantages are metal vs. plastic and the body can sit upside down to remove the battery or card.  

The Nikon F3 when introduced had a finder with greater magnification than the later HP finder, yet the HP was sold as greater eye relief.  The non-HP was discontinued, yet it had the greater magnification similar to the M10/020 viso combination.   

All excellent points - thanks for contributing to what now appears to be a truly comprehensive source of relevant info on this issue.

Yeah - I brought up the Nikon HP thing when discussing all this with Ernie at Tamarkin in Chicago yesterday.

[snapwell]

I'll never give up RF unless something really dramatic happens with my vision. That's still gonna be the main view for me, maybe 80% of the time.

Currently I have a full frame Nikon for hires shooting, an APS-C Sony hanging off the back of my trusty 400 Telyt for birding (with a Nikon 1,4x extender) and a good assortment of Leica M & LTM gear for the bulk of what I shoot.

The M11 does indeed promise to free the Nikon to the resale market, although I have so much MF Nikon glass (15 to 400) that it's gonna be hard to chuck that stuff.

[darylgo]

1 hour ago, M11 for me said:

That is absolutely right. Such a clear image in the OVF. Its great and nothing can beat it. On the other hand in the EVF you see what you will get. That is actually my point. I can adjust the exposure better and more precisely than in the OVF. 

The option of using either is unique to Leica, in addition to the rear lcd and the 90 degree pivot of the 2 it is a most versatile camera.   

59 minutes ago, snapwell said:

Yeah - I brought up the Nikon HP thing when discussing all this with Ernie at Tamarkin in Chicago yesterday.

The older (higher magnification) viewfinder was relegated to the old technology trash bin with the intro of the HP, I kept one for the times I wanted the higher magnification, somewhere buried in the spec sheets the numbers can be found.  The finder that provides greater ease of use is the sports finder for the F3, the Visoflex 2 reminds me of that design and I can't help but think Leica may have taken from it design cues.  

One last thought, I continue to hold onto my Leica Brightline Finders for 18, 21, 24, 35, 50, 75 and 90, they give that crystal clear view and it's at times easier to use the top mounted finder.  

[jslabovitz]

I've posted here before about my technique, but I use the 020 on my M10-D primarily to preview shots that I'll be converting to monochrome (which is common for me). Secondarily, it's useful in to ensuring I have my framing the way I want, and finally to to check histogram/etc. with difficult exposures.

By setting the file mode to DNG+JPG, and the JPG mode to B&W, the 020 will display the image in B&W. It does result in double files (.dng and .jpg), but Lightroom import seems to automatically hide the JPG. (And sometimes it's nice to have the JPG as a reference.)

I created a custom Lightroom preset to convert the DNG file to B&W, more or less matching the JPG -- not because I need to match it, but because I happen to like that rendering.

This technique gives me the best of all worlds: initial framing/composition and focus with the excellent rangefinder, and a useful preview before I press the shutter button. It's also ergonomically easy to shift my eye between the OVF & EVF, without affecting the composition -- much more so than it would be if I had a regular M10 w/screen and had to pull the away from my eye to see the image.

[chasdfg]

11 hours ago, jslabovitz said:

I've posted here before about my technique, but I use the 020 on my M10-D primarily to preview shots that I'll be converting to monochrome (which is common for me). Secondarily, it's useful in to ensuring I have my framing the way I want, and finally to to check histogram/etc. with difficult exposures.

By setting the file mode to DNG+JPG, and the JPG mode to B&W, the 020 will display the image in B&W. It does result in double files (.dng and .jpg), but Lightroom import seems to automatically hide the JPG. (And sometimes it's nice to have the JPG as a reference.)

I created a custom Lightroom preset to convert the DNG file to B&W, more or less matching the JPG -- not because I need to match it, but because I happen to like that rendering.

This technique gives me the best of all worlds: initial framing/composition and focus with the excellent rangefinder, and a useful preview before I press the shutter button. It's also ergonomically easy to shift my eye between the OVF & EVF, without affecting the composition -- much more so than it would be if I had a regular M10 w/screen and had to pull the away from my eye to see the image.

Off topic, but i remember with my M240 I could set the JPEG setting to mono, but shoot DNG only, and still get JPEG B&W display on live view and in my image preview in-camera. I never tried it with the M10-D when I had it. If it works, you wouldn't have double files but just B&W display.

[rramesh]

Never walk into a Leica store if you have no intention of buying anything!

Well today, I walked into one. They had a Visoflex 2 in stock. Last piece. Never wanted it, but bought it anyway. With prices likely to move up next month, it was tempting.

Now it's mounted on my M10-P and I am liking it. Fits and matches well with the black chrome of my camera, screen is nice and bright and works well. While I will never use focus peaking with all lenses, it will come in handy for some occasions. With the excellent fit, I probably will not remove it, unless I need a compact form.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[snapwell]

Yeah - I think for leaving-it-on-the-camera applications there’s no comparison - the Viso 2 is much better.

However, for popping on an M10 only when necessary the 020 really came through for me last week - will post a snap or two if I hammer a couple into postable jpeg form