L-system - Why poor sales?

[IkarusJohn]

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Hi John,

Two things crossed my mind when I read that press release - (1) sales up 16% (whatever, it rather casts doubt on the seers of doom); and (2) returns increased.

It is the latter which bothers me.  On the one hand, discontinuing unprofitable items?  Or increased profit per item … does the latter mean increased efficiency or price gouging?  If Leica wishes to increase its profits by pushing prices up to the tolerable limit (if there is one), I guess that’s fine … for them.  Sadly, I don’t know what that has to do with excellence in photographic products.

Profitable is good for us all, though.  Hopefully some of that profit will benefit a broader sector of photographers.  Still trying to work out how to justify an APO 35 Summicron, and if I really need (okay, want) one.

John

[ravinj]

5 hours ago, John Smith said:

Leica reports its latest sales figures. Good reason not to rely on idle forum chat about the company's poor sales or demise.

Leica will falter. In 2122. 

[beewee]

2 hours ago, John Smith said:

I knew there would be some flak for posting the link.

It wasn’t a personal attack. It’s just that the info provided did not really contribute any meaningful info on the topic of this thread. It’s as useful as talking about Sony sales numbers. Or, trying to interpret how well Panasonic’s camera business is doing by looking at Panasonic’s overall revenue including their washing machine and microwave business. In the context of L-mount sales, there is no actual insight to be gained beyond more speculation.

Edited July 9, 2022 by beewee

[BernardC]

17 hours ago, beewee said:

If history is any indication, the Xiaomi partnership probably brought in more revenue than the combined sales of all L-mount sales (including licensing fees) for Leica over the past year.

If history is any indication, licensing revenue is, at best, 1/4 of system camera sales, even when they were partnered with Huawei (the second biggest seller of smartphones in the world at the time).

It's predictable that many will claim that "the sky is falling," in spite of increased sales and better margins, but let's not forget that these are personal opinions, not backed-up by audited financials.

[John Smith]

16 hours ago, beewee said:

It wasn’t a personal attack. It’s just that the info provided did not really contribute any meaningful info on the topic of this thread. It’s as useful as talking about Sony sales numbers. Or, trying to interpret how well Panasonic’s camera business is doing by looking at Panasonic’s overall revenue including their washing machine and microwave business. In the context of L-mount sales, there is no actual insight to be gained beyond more speculation.

Leica doesn't sell washing machines or microwave ovens. I was pointing out that you get a negative response on this forum no matter what you say. Leica had record sales, and people can't stop speculating that the SL is doomed. I need to spend my time somewhere else. 

[AKorenc]

On 6/22/2022 at 9:17 AM, MarcusGVA said:

... because it's made of high qulaitzy leather and the delicate weaving is beyond most other 'artisan' leather straps. 

Let's just call it luxury and be done with it. Because ... this sentence of yours is waaay beyond nonsense. Utter nonsense. A $7 nonsense selling for $700.
I get it, I'm all for it, I really do understand this sort of "economy," but let's get our facts strait, do a reality check and call it what it is. Nonsense.

[MakinMemories]

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14 minutes ago, John Smith said:

Leica doesn't sell washing machines or microwave ovens. I was pointing out that you get a negative response on this forum no matter what you say. Leica had record sales, and people can't stop speculating that the SL is doomed. I need to spend my time somewhere else. 

Yup, there more trolls on this site than I expected...Leica is a premium / luxury brand and is priced as such. Maybe there should be a forum just for registered owners of Leica SL / SL2 / SL2-S where only those registered owners could post comments...

I am more than happy with my SL2 and the Leica lenses I have bought to pair with it. I am also looking forward to the SL3 when released...I may or may not upgrade or buy a second body, I am still excited to see Leica continuing their pursuit of excellence. 

Now when the Q3 arrives, you can bet I will grab one of those-should be the perfect camera for traveling light or for something GF or future wife could easily use!

[nicci78]

23 hours ago, John Smith said:

Leica reports its latest sales figures. Good reason not to rely on idle forum chat about the company's poor sales or demise.

2021-22 ends March 31st. 
That’s 3 full months of M11 sales and 1 full year of APO-Summicron-M 35mm. 
Both very high margin products selling like hot cakes. 
Leica success still depends on M & Q line up. Not on SL nor CL. 

[IkarusJohn]

1 hour ago, nicci78 said:

2021-22 ends March 31st. 
That’s 3 full months of M11 sales and 1 full year of APO-Summicron-M 35mm. 
Both very high margin products selling like hot cakes. 
Leica success still depends on M & Q line up. Not on SL nor CL. 

And you know this how?  

[Jeff S]

2 hours ago, nicci78 said:

…and 1 full year of APO-Summicron-M 35mm. 

 

So, based on discussed availability, about 10 lenses?  🤪

Jeff

[Simone_DF]

2 hours ago, John Smith said:

Leica doesn't sell washing machines or microwave ovens. I was pointing out that you get a negative response on this forum no matter what you say. Leica had record sales, and people can't stop speculating that the SL is doomed. I need to spend my time somewhere else. 

Record sales compared to what? To 2019 or to 2020? Because in 2020, for the reasons we all know, there was a worldwide massive dip in sales.

Hey, in 2021-2022 I travelled 300% more than in 2020, can you believe it? 

[MarkinVan]

Leica Camera Group reported record financial results for the 2021/22 financial year (the best result in the company’s more than hundred-year history)

Read more: https://leicarumors.com/2022/07/08/leica-camera-group-reported-record-financial-results-for-the-2021-22-financial-year-the-best-result-in-the-companys-more-than-hundred-year-history.aspx/#ixzz7YZfclMW4

[Simone_DF]

3 minutes ago, MarkinVan said:

Leica Camera Group reported record financial results for the 2021/22 financial year (the best result in the company’s more than hundred-year history)

Read more: https://leicarumors.com/2022/07/08/leica-camera-group-reported-record-financial-results-for-the-2021-22-financial-year-the-best-result-in-the-companys-more-than-hundred-year-history.aspx/#ixzz7YZfclMW4

If in 2020 I had a -20% drop in sales* because of Covid, semiconductors squeeze and general logistic issues, but in 2021/2022 I have a +16%, this still leaves me with a -4% compared to 2019.

So, that's fantastic that Leica sales are increasing by 16%, but these numbers, while really positive, are telling us only a fraction of the story.

*just an example, I don't have the real data

[Jeff S]

8 minutes ago, MarkinVan said:

Leica Camera Group reported record financial results for the 2021/22 financial year (the best result in the company’s more than hundred-year history)

Read more: https://leicarumors.com/2022/07/08/leica-camera-group-reported-record-financial-results-for-the-2021-22-financial-year-the-best-result-in-the-companys-more-than-hundred-year-history.aspx/#ixzz7YZfclMW4

Post #278 and following discussion.
 

Jeff

[MakinMemories]

50 minutes ago, Simone_DF said:

Record sales compared to what? To 2019 or to 2020? Because in 2020, for the reasons we all know, there was a worldwide massive dip in sales.

Hey, in 2021-2022 I travelled 300% more than in 2020, can you believe it? 

 

Actually many luxury products increased sales during the lockdown disaster...This I know for a fact as I own two high-end A/V speciality stores and we have grown each of the past 22 years, last year was no exception. I also know other luxury retailers who report similar sales increases. A lot of affluent clients who normally travel a lot, were more sequestered last year than normal and their attention was directed towards their hobbies-including high end audio, photography, etc.

There were certainly widespread market disruptions during the past 18 months and sales of many products suffered, however to make an all inclusive statement of  "worldwide massive dip in sales" is factually incorrect.

[MarkinVan]

20 minutes ago, Simone_DF said:

If in 2020 I had a -20% drop in sales* because of Covid, semiconductors squeeze and general logistic issues, but in 2021/2022 I have a +16%, this still leaves me with a -4% compared to 2019.

So, that's fantastic that Leica sales are increasing by 16%, but these numbers, while really positive, are telling us only a fraction of the story.

*just an example, I don't have the real data

What's are you trying to say, it was the "best result in the company’s more than hundred-year history".  If that's only "a fraction of the story", what is the remaining part of the story?

[Simone_DF]

Just now, MarkinVan said:

What's are you trying to say, it was the "best result in the company’s more than hundred-year history".  If that's only "a fraction of the story", what is the remaining part of the story?

What I'm trying to say is that the marketing department makes statements based on what they want to say. If I sold 1 last year, but sold 3 this year, I can safely tell you that I sold 300% more. 16% more is great, but compared to what? 2020? And was 2020 a positive or negative year?

[Simone_DF]

17 minutes ago, MakinMemories said:

Actually many luxury products increased sales during the lockdown disaster...This I know for a fact as I own two high-end A/V speciality stores and we have grown each of the past 22 years, last year was no exception. I also know other luxury retailers who report similar sales increases. A lot of affluent clients who normally travel a lot, were more sequestered last year than normal and their attention was directed towards their hobbies-including high end audio, photography, etc.

There were certainly widespread market disruptions during the past 18 months and sales of many products suffered, however to make an all inclusive statement of  "worldwide massive dip in sales" is factually incorrect.

I did a google search and apparently in 2020/2021 Leica had a -8%. Which means that in 2021/2022 not only Leica has recouped that 8%, but it has doubled it, which is excellent.

[MarkinVan]

2 minutes ago, Simone_DF said:

What I'm trying to say is that the marketing department makes statements based on what they want to say. If I sold 1 last year, but sold 3 this year, I can safely tell you that I sold 300% more. 16% more is great, but compared to what? 2020? And was 2020 a positive or negative year?

And if they say "best result in the company’s more than hundred-year history" what does mean to you and your number juggling?

Seems you are the one making statements based on what you "want to say". 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[Herr Barnack]

Quote

L-system - Why poor sales?

Just a theory, but the L system cameras and lenses are big, heavy and expensive whereas the M camera system cameras and lenses are small, light and expensive.  Perhaps that explains it.

Edited July 9, 2022 by Herr Barnack