L-system - Why poor sales?

[beewee]

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12 hours ago, BernardC said:

If history is any indication, licensing revenue is, at best, 1/4 of system camera sales, even when they were partnered with Huawei (the second biggest seller of smartphones in the world at the time).

Licensing fees is a lot more profitable than building cameras that require expensive materials and skilled labour. It wouldn’t surprise me if licensing fees is what keeps the company as a whole profitable.

[BernardC]

18 hours ago, AKorenc said:

Let's just call it luxury and be done with it. Because ... this sentence of yours is waaay beyond nonsense. Utter nonsense. A $7 nonsense selling for $700.
I get it, I'm all for it, I really do understand this sort of "economy," but let's get our facts strait, do a reality check and call it what it is. Nonsense.

You would be correct if Leica was a struggling company and this was their only product. In that case they should get the cheapest leather scraps, found in the thrash bin of a counterfeit sneaker factory, cover it in enough polyurethane so that it's more plastic than leather, bid-out the work to a third-world factory, no questions asked. (Really, it's best not to ask any questions, or leave any paper trail! Your counsel will explain.)

That's how one gets ahead in this world, isn't it? The only problem is that someone, with even less concern for workers and customers, will undercut you. The plastic strap that you "made" will spend a very brief instant of its existence in customer's hands, break (taking an expensive camera with it, oops!), and then the rest of eternity in landfill.

If that's the product you want, why even consider Leica? Why even have eco-conscious tanneries, skilled workers, companies that stand behind their product, etc.? It can all be done cheaper.

The irony is that the $7 strap has a higher profit margin than the Zegna version. It won't cost more than a few pennies FOB.

[BernardC]

10 hours ago, beewee said:

Licensing fees is a lot more profitable than building cameras that require expensive materials and skilled labour. It wouldn’t surprise me if licensing fees is what keeps the company as a whole profitable.

Every little bit helps, but I would be surprised if Leica's hefty prices didn't include a reasonable profit margin. Also, licensing fees would drop quickly if they stopped being a real brand. Ask Rolleiflex.

[frame-it]

On 7/10/2022 at 1:29 AM, John Smith said:

people can't stop speculating that the SL is doomed.

its because this thread started by branching out from the thoughts on the CL discontinued thread, and its taken on a life of its own, then leica rumors will post something based on this thread, and then it will spread all over the net like the CL thing did.

 

[IkarusJohn]

I think Nicci was predicting the death. Of the L mount before the CL discontinuance thread started.

[northernlights]

On 7/10/2022 at 5:17 AM, Herr Barnack said:

Just a theory, but the L system cameras and lenses are big, heavy and expensive whereas the M camera system cameras and lenses are small, light and expensive.  Perhaps that explains it.

actually to be exact. M-mount lenses are manual focus and smaller than full-frame AF mirrorless (L mount) and DSLR counterparts. The APSC, 4/3 lenses are smaller due to size of sensors which we all know. But, still slightly larger than M-mount manual lenses in equivalent brightness, apple to apple comparison.

The 18-56 TL is an AF lens but small because it’s 3.5-5.6 and APSC, maybe equal or slightly lighter than 50mm f1 noct. But, it is still L mount. 

 

 

[jbl375]

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I bought SL2 few month ago as my second camera. Later, I found out that Leica SL21mm lens would not be available as plan, I felt frustrated.  How came I believed in that kind of poor marketing tactic?

At the time the firmware 4.0 was available, I was amused by the turmoil when people here got into trouble of upgrading their own SL2s.  Seem that the software engineers did not test the firmware before it was released.  So, all SL2 owner become rabbits at Leica laboratory.   And you found out the software bugs and saved the times of Leica engineers.  

[Jeff S]

5 hours ago, jbl375 said:

I bought SL2 few month ago as my second camera. Later, I found out that Leica SL21mm lens would not be available as plan, I felt frustrated.  

The SL 21mm was on the roadmap for 2020; already two years behind at the time you bought your SL2.

Jeff

[rsh]

Almost a year ago, I purchased an SL2-S with a 24-90 Vario Elmarit SL followed not long after with a 90-280 Vario Elmarit SL.  Two moths ago, I added the 16-35 Super Vario Elmar SL.  I could not be more pleased with the system and when I need a fast prime, I can  use use an M lens.   To me, the bulk and weight within the 24-90 is not greater than the R9 w/ DMR and  the 28-90 Vario Elmarit R I sold years ago.  As good as the viewfinder is on the SL2-S, it not as clear in daylight as the optical finder in the Leica SLRs.  That said it is not much of a hindrance in daily bright outdoor shooting.

 

[beewee]

2 hours ago, rsh said:

As good as the viewfinder is on the SL2-S, it not as clear in daylight as the optical finder in the Leica SLRs.  That said it is not much of a hindrance in daily bright outdoor shooting.

Have you tried setting the EVF to max brightness in your user profile? I had a similar issue when I first got the SL2-S and noticed that in bright light, while wearing sunglasses, the EVF was too dim. After setting a user profile for outdoors where I max out the EVF, I’ve never found myself thinking the EVF was not bright enough even while wearing sunglasses.

[rsh]

Thank you.  I will give it a try.

 

Almost a year ago, I purchased an SL2-S with a 24-90 Vario Elmarit SL followed not long after with a 90-280 Vario Elmarit SL.  Two moths ago, I added the 16-35 Super Vario Elmar SL.  I could not be more pleased with the system and when I need a fast prime, I use an M lens. 

[jbl375]

10 hours ago, Jeff S said:

The SL 21mm was on the roadmap for 2020; already two years behind at the time you bought your SL2.

Jeff

The mistake is mine. When I pay for a toy, I don't spend months to study the history of the maker.

[Jeff S]

1 hour ago, jbl375 said:

The mistake is mine. When I pay for a toy, I don't spend months to study the history of the maker.

When I buy into a camera system, it’s a tool for making pics/prints, not a toy. A key purchase decision priority for me is the existing native lens options; not what might come in the future, which can lead to disappointment with any brand. 

Jeff

[MakinMemories]

Well I am still contributing to sales of the Leica SL system...just picked up a new 35mm Cron today! This pretty much completes most of my SL2 system lens wish list, now have: VE24-70mm which came with SL2, VE90-280mm second lens purchase, 50mm 1.4 Lux SL, VE16-35mm and todays acquisition, the 35mm Cron. The only other lenses I really want would be a wide angle TS and a 400-600mm super tele...I really like all the Leica lenses above though I have only spent an hour or so with the new 35mm. If I have one little complaint, it would be that the VE24-70mm zoom function is @ss backwards...

This kit (with the exception of the missing TS and super tele) pretty much mirrors the lenses of my old Canon F1 system which I loved, used and took great care of! However, many years ago before starting my business I sold everything that wasn't absolutely necessary-including my beloved camera kit... I had honestly forgotten how much I enjoyed the art of photography!

[jbl375]

1 hour ago, Jeff S said:

When I buy into a camera system, it’s a tool for making pics/prints, not a toy. A key purchase decision priority for me is the existing native lens options; not what might come in the future, which can lead to disappointment with any brand. 

Jeff

Not to me.  When I bought SL2, I felt boring in life and just spent money to make some excitement.

[Jeff S]

13 minutes ago, jbl375 said:

Not to me.  When I bought SL2, I felt boring in life and just spent money to make some excitement.

Seems you got more excitement than you wanted.

Jeff

[jbl375]

28 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

Seems you got more excitement than you wanted.

Jeff

Yes.  I shall share my excitement with people in other forums.

[Jeff S]

I’m sure readers will benefit from your several minutes of SL research and ownership. Hopefully your prior M3, M4, M6 and R4 ownership provides some understanding of brand history despite your stating not to care about that. For me, the SL2 is a more than worthy successor to my R6.2, and has met or exceeded all my expectations, which were partly determined by a brief demo using preferred lens options. Different strokes…

Jeff

[MJB]

6 hours ago, beewee said:

Have you tried setting the EVF to max brightness in your user profile? I had a similar issue when I first got the SL2-S and noticed that in bright light, while wearing sunglasses, the EVF was too dim. After setting a user profile for outdoors where I max out the EVF, I’ve never found myself thinking the EVF was not bright enough even while wearing sunglasses.

I can't imagine the SL finder doesn't get bright enough. I shoot a CL mid-day in the tropics with EVF brightness set to auto and have never struggled with it. *shrug* 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[Aperture 2]

Why always so many angry people in the forums ? I will never understand…so sad ! 🤔