Leica M 240 vs M10: Color rendition?

[Peter K]

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Hi,

I just read through this thread where the M240 is compared to the M262 with regards to color rendition: 

 

I was wondering: Can anyone comment on the color rendition of .dng files between the M240 and the M10?

I am asking because I keep struggling with a relatively strong pink / redish color cast on my M240 when post-processing the .dng files. I understand that this is a general tendency with the M240.

I have experimented in LightRoom with different color profiles that I made with the X-Rite colorchecker. But it didn't quite have the effect that I hoped for.

I know that most things (including color) can be adjusted to a high degree in Lightroom when shooting .dng as I do. And of course, a pleasing color is a very subjective thing.

But I am very interested in hearing your opinion, if the M10 might deliver a more neutral or, at least, a less saturated starting point with regard to especially red and pink compared to the M240?

Thanks in advance.

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[jaeger]

The answer is test one lens on these 2 bodies to confirm.  I don't have M10, someone here should be able to help.

[benqui]

I had an M 240 and sold it to fund a M10-D. Maybe it is just my very subjective perception, but I like the colors out of the cam with the M10 much more. Don‘t forget there is also deep in our brain, that the new tool must be better as the old one.

But leaving all feelings aside, the colors of the M10 help me a lot to minimize my time in front of the computer (Lightroom). 

It is always very difficult with a comparison because you seldom have the same light situations, background….

Maybe just two examples (the two photos are out of the cam, RAW, nothing changed, same place, approx. the same light siuation

M240: (not perfectly sharp, sorry)

 

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M10:

 

Edited May 25, 2022 by benqui

[Cobram]

7 hours ago, benqui said:

I had an M 240 and sold it to fund a M10-D. Maybe it is just my very subjective perception, but I like the colors out of the cam with the M10 much more. Don‘t forget there is also deep in our brain, that the new tool must be better as the old one.

But leaving all feelings aside, the colors of the M10 help me a lot to minimize my time in front of the computer (Lightroom). 

It is always very difficult with a comparison because you seldom have the same light situations, background….

Maybe just two examples (the two photos are out of the cam, RAW, nothing changed, same place, approx. the same light siuation

M240: (not perfectly sharp, sorry)

 

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M10:

 

Nowadays it can be dangerous to express admiration for beautiful woman without being accused of... but nevertheless great portraits AND what a beautiful, sensual, natural women.

As per M240: I skipped M240 and M262 and jumped on M10. I downloaded and tested many .dng files and came to the conclusion that M10 output is much better (to my eyes). The only drawback of M10 .dng files is IMHO highlights clipping.

[elmars]

vor 11 Stunden schrieb Peter K:

Hi,

I just read through this thread where the M240 is compared to the M262 with regards to color rendition: 

 

I was wondering: Can anyone comment on the color rendition of .dng files between the M240 and the M10?

I am asking because I keep struggling with a relatively strong pink / redish color cast on my M240 when post-processing the .dng files. I understand that this is a general tendency with the M240.

I have experimented in LightRoom with different color profiles that I made with the X-Rite colorchecker. But it didn't quite have the effect that I hoped for.

I know that most things (including color) can be adjusted to a high degree in Lightroom when shooting .dng as I do. And of course, a pleasing color is a very subjective thing.

But I am very interested in hearing your opinion, if the M10 might deliver a more neutral or, at least, a less saturated starting point with regard to especially red and pink compared to the M240?

Thanks in advance.

I hated the skin tones of the M262 (= M240). The M10 is far better in color (M10-R and M11 are even a bit better). But I was satisfied with the skin tones (and other colors) of the M262 after making me a profile of my own. The most important impact has the setting of the red hue slider in the HSL-module +20 to the right.

I made me a preset fro Lightroom. If You are interested please send me a private message.

[Peter K]

Thanks to you all for answering. Much appreciated!

It seems there's consensus to some degree that the colors (especially the skin tones) of the M10 are 'better' / more pleasing / natural straight out of the camera than with the M240. And that is consistent with what I have read elsewhere.

Color is indeed a very subjective thing. But for me, the time needed to correct the colors to my liking in LR somehow subtracts from the total experience.

So I will strongly consider to sell my M240 and look for an M10 as it sounds like a better solution for me.

Thanks again.

[Mr.Prime]

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Fyi

looking on an ipad only, both women’s skin tones look off to me. It would be over simplifying to say the first is too yellow, the second too pink.

[david strachan]

Both pictures have "off" skin tones really.

Not fair to compare the two cameras when totally different lighting...one might be a spotlight for all we know...  

 

[jaapv]

Just for the record: the colours of the M240 series are indeed a bit of a hassle to get right. I find any new (to me) camera needs a bit of work to get my profiles and workflow right. The M240 took more work than most. 
Additionally, the M240 has a fair amount of residual IR sensitivity, causing colour shifts like a yellow cast under strong tropical noon sun, and magenta blotches on Caucasian skin. Both are very hard to get rid of. Better to use a IR (hot) filter with high-IR content light - that emphatically includes flash.

BTW, you have some  blown highlights on the arms and face in the second shot.

[Photomek]

I've got a M262 for almost two years now and was never really happy with the colors when I used Lightroom especially with light skin tones. And even after trying to tweak the HSL sliders it never got right for me. Then I tried Capture One Pro. No problems with colors anymore. It works really really well even out of the box. 

[RexGig0]

I tested pre-owned or demo M Type 240 cameras, with one particular pre-owned Summilux-M 50mm ASPH lens, at the official Leica dealer, in nearby Houston, Texas, on at least two occasions. When I decided to go ahead and buy the lens, without yet knowing which M camera I would acquire, upon which to use it, I was presented the opportunity to try the lens on a new M10 camera, as they finally had two M10 cameras available, for sale, without the need to first be on a waiting list. I remember that I liked the M10’s colors, better than what I had experienced with the M Type 240. I cannot remember the specific difference, as that was April 2018, but I do remember that the employees’ Western European skin tones looked better with the M10, compared with the M Type 240. 

After I brought the lens and camera home, my wife’s Eastern European skin tone looked most wonderful with the M10, but I did not have a 240, with me, for comparison, because that M10 was my first Leica camera.

I realize that my post is of limited usefulness, but it is simply meant to affirm what others have posted.

Edited May 30, 2022 by RexGig0

[Peter K]

18 hours ago, RexGig0 said:

I tested pre-owned or demo M Type 240 cameras, with one particular pre-owned Summilux-M 50mm ASPH lens, at the official Leica dealer, in nearby Houston, Texas, on at least two occasions. When I decided to go ahead and buy the lens, without yet knowing which M camera I would acquire, upon which to use it, I was presented the opportunity to try the lens on a new M10 camera, as they finally had two M10 cameras available, for sale, without the need to first be on a waiting list. I remember that I liked the M10’s colors, better than what I had experienced with the M Type 240. I cannot remember the specific difference, as that was April 2018, but I do remember that the employees’ Western European skin tones looked better with the M10, compared with the M Type 240. 

After I brought the lens and camera home, my wife’s Eastern European skin tone looked most wonderful with the M10, but I did not have a 240, with me, for comparison, because that M10 was my first Leica camera.

I realize that my post is of limited usefulness, but it is simply meant to affirm what others have posted.

Your post is definately useful. Thanks.

It confirms what many other users of both cameras have said; that they like the colors straight from the M10 better than from the M240.

I will give it one more try to see if I can adjust the colors from the M240 to my liking based on some of the ideas above.

But no matter what, I will also consider to upgrade to the M10 before too long.

Thanks again. Much appreciated.