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GERMANY vs. CANADA (Summilux 35mm pre-asph)

Capuccino-Muffin

By Capuccino-Muffin
in Leica M Lenses

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adan

adan

Posted
Posted

I don't doubt your observation, but I'm not sure it justifies your headline.

Which could well really be MADE ON A WEDNESDAY vs. MADE ON A FRIDAY.

Or MADE IN 1989 vs. MADE IN 1965.

And even then, you would need to have checked a "much, much, much" larger sample than one of each - at least 20-30 random examples each of GERMAN/CANADIAN, WEDNESDAY/MONDAY, or 1989/1965.

Study up on the science of SQ/PC (Statistical Quality/Process Control). ;)

https://asq.org/quality-resources/stratification

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Jeff S

Jeff S

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, adan said:

I don't doubt your observation, but I'm not sure it justifies your headline.

Which could well really be MADE ON A WEDNESDAY vs. MADE ON A FRIDAY.

Or MADE IN 1989 vs. MADE IN 1965.

And even then, you would need to have checked a "much, much, much" larger sample than one of each - at least 20-30 random examples each of GERMAN/CANADIAN, WEDNESDAY/MONDAY, or 1989/1965.

Study up on the science of SQ/PC (Statistical Quality/Process Control). ;)

https://asq.org/quality-resources/stratification

And I wouldn’t rule out calibration as an absolute… calibrated by whom, using what device and standard, and where it falls within tolerance (and with camera calibration tolerance when using RF).

Jeff

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adan

adan

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Gobert said:

Canadians or not big drinkers. Germans are.

Possibly - but everyone tends to forget that the workers in the Canadian factory were mostly German expatriates sent there by Leica.

ELCAN even provided English classes for all their "German workers working in Canada" and their families. ;)

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wda

wda

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Capuccino-Muffin said:

My Germany version is much, much, much, much sharper at f1.4 than my Canadian version. Both are well calibrated.
 

Of course, this also means that my Canadian version is much more poetic than the German version, therefore I love it just as much.

 

 

I would not rule out that one lens is faulty and needs servicing. You describe such a big difference in performance.

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Siriusone59

Siriusone59

Posted
Posted

I've seen this mentioned before about the difference in the two lenses.  Don't know why or if it is standard or a one-off thing but I've got to admit that I am a bit prejudice when looking at used glass with intent to purchase...  Even used prices tend to reflect the opinion that german glass might be a tad bit more desired.  Thanks for sharing your experience.

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shirubadanieru

shirubadanieru

Posted
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It’s well documented in multiple threads regarding this lens that the last iteration of this lens made in Germany (both black & titanium versions), while sharing the same optical design, is indeed sharper than previous Canada-made lenses, and exhibits less glow wide open. There’s a fairly long thread on this lens that touches also on the V1 and early V2 with infinity lock, so I suggest you check that one out :) 

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pgk

pgk

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, shirubadanieru said:

It’s well documented in multiple threads regarding this lens that the last iteration of this lens made in Germany (both black & titanium versions), while sharing the same optical design, is indeed sharper than previous Canada-made lenses, and exhibits less glow wide open. There’s a fairly long thread on this lens that touches also on the V1 and early V2 with infinity lock, so I suggest you check that one out :) 

That's hearsay I'm afraid. Elcan produced, and still produce ,as far as I am aware under their present owners, extrememly good optics. The idea the somehow Canadian production was inferior to that in Germany is laughable. Both would have been made to the same company standards. There is a paper about this lens by optical designers at Elcan (one of whom I went to college with) which concludes that the original design could not e bettered with the glass available when Mandler (German) designed it (in Canada). A marginal adjustment took place but even Elcan (where this modification took place) do not appear to have records of when this took place. Any variability noted in forums like this always fails to provide a large sample size, and is based on lenses which are decades old and may be in need of CLAs to optimise their optics and mechanics, which may have taken knocks or sufferent mechanical wear.

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shirubadanieru

shirubadanieru

Posted
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34 minutes ago, pgk said:

That's hearsay I'm afraid. Elcan produced, and still produce ,as far as I am aware under their present owners, extrememly good optics. The idea the somehow Canadian production was inferior to that in Germany is laughable. Both would have been made to the same company standards. There is a paper about this lens by optical designers at Elcan (one of whom I went to college with) which concludes that the original design could not e bettered with the glass available when Mandler (German) designed it (in Canada). A marginal adjustment took place but even Elcan (where this modification took place) do not appear to have records of when this took place. Any variability noted in forums like this always fails to provide a large sample size, and is based on lenses which are decades old and may be in need of CLAs to optimise their optics and mechanics, which may have taken knocks or sufferent mechanical wear.

No one is saying that it’s because they were made in Canada. My favorite Lux is the V1 and V2 with infinity lock which are made in Canada. 

The German made ones are sharper and glow less not because they were made in Germany VS Canada but because they are the last batch (in same cases using coatings that are 30y newer than the Canada made lenses). That’s the only difference. 

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TheBestSLIsALeicaflex

TheBestSLIsALeicaflex

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, shirubadanieru said:

No one is saying that it’s because they were made in Canada. My favorite Lux is the V1 and V2 with infinity lock which are made in Canada. 

The German made ones are sharper and glow less not because they were made in Germany VS Canada but because they are the last batch (in same cases using coatings that are 30y newer than the Canada made lenses). That’s the only difference. 

You actually see the same with the DR Summicron and (so I'm told) 3.4 Super Angulon.  Probably many other lenses too.  Not surprising.  Different coatings made the later lenses appear a bit sharper with more contrast, even though the optical formula and type of glass stayed the same.  I've had a couple of the aforementioned 50's pass through the house and this seems to be true.  But with old lenses so much depends on the condition (e.g., haze ect).  

 

 

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me111

me111

Posted
Posted

I've owned three copies of this lens. (and still own two) (2x Canada, 1x Germany) (The oldest is 29xxxxx, and the newest is 35xxxxx)

My observations are:

- My newest lens has MORE yellowish looking coating and has LESS yellowish rendering and vice versa,

- The contrast (glow) is "exactly" the same across the board.

Maybe my lenses are oddballs.😅

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