Price rising, do you still shoot film?

[Crem]

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On 9/12/2022 at 7:07 AM, FilmSpiel said:

i received today 20 rolls portra 160 + 20 rolls of portra 400.

 

i´m officially broke from today on by the way 🙂

 

If you don't mind me asking, did you buy online or local? I haven't seen Porta 160 or 400 (in 35mm) available in months (USA online stores). I can't imagine how you found 40 rolls except on Ebay.

Yesterday I was shocked when I saw that B&H now sells a 5 pack of Portra 400 35mm for $99 USD (and it is sold out). They are selling a single pack of Portra 800 for $18.95 USD. When my freezer runs out I'm officially finished with color film. Film + C41 lab dev is approaching $1 a shot (I scan myself) and unfortunately my keeper rate isn't 100% 😂

[adan]

It was once said that yacht racing "is like sitting under a cold shower, tearing up $100 bills."

Perhaps film photography will become "like stumbling around in a darkened room, tearing up $100 bills."

................

I've always found that the best solution (absent a family trust fund) is to figure out how to make other people pay for the film (and the cameras - and my "fun"). By putting in the time and effort to make pictures that are so good that other people will buy them, or pay for my skills otherwise.

It only takes a little self-confidence. As Woody Allen said, "80% of success in life is just showing up!"

These days, I net around $2000 from 25-print editions from each good $1.00 frame of 120 film. That is a pretty good ROI, which pays for all the non-keepers, and everything else.

Examples (Mamiya 6 and Hassy, TMax 400):

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[FilmSpiel]

vor 12 Stunden schrieb Crem:

If you don't mind me asking, did you buy online or local? I haven't seen Porta 160 or 400 (in 35mm) available in months (USA online stores). I can't imagine how you found 40 rolls except on Ebay.

Yesterday I was shocked when I saw that B&H now sells a 5 pack of Portra 400 35mm for $99 USD (and it is sold out). They are selling a single pack of Portra 800 for $18.95 USD. When my freezer runs out I'm officially finished with color film. Film + C41 lab dev is approaching $1 a shot (I scan myself) and unfortunately my keeper rate isn't 100% 😂

I bought online at two stores. Calumet and ringfoto. 2 years ago i bought in local stores, but right now One roll is about 20€

[oldwino]

22 hours ago, FilmSpiel said:

I paid 600€ in germany for 20 rolls. 
and added some silbersalz d50 and d250. 
 

so the total cost was about 950€. 
🤪

That's insane.

Not you...but those prices.

[Doug A]

I only shoot b&w and no more than one roll a week. I have given up 120 and now bulk load 12-exposure rolls of 35mm. I have just about finished my 100' rolls of Tri-X and HP5 and have been experimenting with some of the lower priced ISO 400 films. 

For my experiments I have been buying a single 36-exposure roll and dividing it into two 12-exposure rolls. I expose the first roll at box speed and develop per the manufacturer's instructions (or per Adox's instructions if the film manufacturer doesn't recommend development  times with Rodinal). I adjust the exposure and/or development of the second roll to fine tune the results. 

[quietglow]

On 9/13/2022 at 6:38 PM, adan said:

I've always found that the best solution (absent a family trust fund) is to figure out how to make other people pay for the film (and the cameras - and my "fun"). By putting in the time and effort to make pictures that are so good that other people will buy them, or pay for my skills otherwise.

I like this idea. Any suggestions on how to get the proverbial ball rolling for that to happen?

[erl]

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On 9/14/2022 at 9:38 AM, adan said:

It was once said that yacht racing "is like sitting under a cold shower, tearing up $100 bills."

Perhaps film photography will become "like stumbling around in a darkened room, tearing up $100 bills."

................

I've always found that the best solution (absent a family trust fund) is to figure out how to make other people pay for the film (and the cameras - and my "fun"). By putting in the time and effort to make pictures that are so good that other people will buy them, or pay for my skills otherwise.

 

 

I empathize with the first two comments, having indulged both.

The last observation is one that I now realize I have spent a ' lifetime' trying to avoid. I was always ' owned' by the client with the money and obliged to follow their bidding. Now retired, I am free to follow my own creativity, which, IMO, has soared since dumping paid work. I wonder if my present work style would have a market. I believe my current work is different from many. One of my basic ethos' is to "shoot what others will not or cannot". For me, that separates my work from much of what I am familiar with.

To follow Adan's ethos, which I respect, and especially I respect Adan as a member here, I don't see that it would work for me.

Bottom line: I face the inevitability of paying my own way to shoot film. I actually own more film cameras that digital. 🤑

[adan]

13 hours ago, quietglow said:

Any suggestions on how to get the proverbial ball rolling for that to happen?

8 hours ago, erl said:

The last observation is one that I now realize I have spent a ' lifetime' trying to avoid. I was always ' owned' by the client with the money and obliged to follow their bidding. Now retired, I am free to follow my own creativity, which, IMO, has soared since dumping paid work. I wonder if my present work style would have a market.

Both good questions. Responding in reverse order:

I've avoided being "owned" by the client by mostly doing all my photo work (outside of full salaried staff employment) "over the transom." I create the pictures I want - then offer them for sale to an audience, not one client. 

Once it was photos with their own written stories, mailed on spec to newspaper travel sections. Now it is prints in a gallery (and one book so far, sold through the gallery and a couple of individual other stores).

In both cases, the key lies in using the reproducibility of photography to make multiple sales of the same photo(s), over and over.

As to how I did it, for the travel photos/stories I took a free-university class being taught by a travel photographer already using that model. Not about how to take good pictures or write well, but which newspapers had good travel sections and bought freelance submissions. and how to be professional in approaching them (cover letters, good-quality image files or dupes, which rights to offer, how to cover a subject with variety and completeness).

The gallery was a lucky find five years ago - a co-op non-profit in an established "Art District" that provides wall space in exchange for 6 hours of volunteer work a month, and takes 20% of any sales. And also rents small personal gallery/studio spaces (~150 sq. feet) for about $1.80/sq. foot monthly. Not "curated" - earn your space with volunteer hours - hang any work you want! We have ~100 exhibiting members and 26 studio/rental members.

You do, perhaps, have to be willing to let your "inner hippy" loose.   (see below - "Peace, Love and Tie-Dye!")

In both cases I've been surprised at how well "documentary/journalistic" photos sell (although I sell other genres too)- and I found that out only by following the Woody Allen quote in my previous post - just showing up.

A few places Google found:

https://westchicago.org/gallery-200-2/

https://www.agitatorgallery.com

https://artistrunalliance.org/loc/melbourne/

https://acoop.com.au/About

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Edited October 5, 2022 by adan

[quietglow]

Super helpful info @adan. I was a member of a coop group that basically had a "deconstructed galley." i.e. they would find local businesses that needed things to hang on the walls and organize artists to display their work that way. I didn't realize there were coop galleries, but totally makes sense. Definitely something to look into. 

[cboy]

A recent YouTuber put into perspective the price for film that one needs only to shoot 50 rolls of porta 400, scan and develop the film at $20 a roll to equal the cost of a M11...go figure. Film is for rich people 🙃

Edited October 6, 2022 by cboy

[andybarton]

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[Anbaric]

I was looking at some of my old Amazon orders yesterday. In 2017, I bought a 3-pack of Fuji Superia 400 for £11.99. Today, the price from Amazon EU (not a third party scalper) is £78.74. A 5-pack is £104.93. At this point I'm not sure if this post belongs here, or in the 'Cost of living crisis' thread.

[Erato]

Just finished another roll of Acros II actually.😄

[armadsen]

9 hours ago, cboy said:

A recent YouTuber put into perspective the price for film that one needs only to shoot 50 rolls of porta 400, scan and develop the film at $20 a roll to equal the cost of a M11...go figure. Film is for rich people 🙃

I watched this video and was surprised at the super obvious mistake. 50 x $20 is $1,000. An M11 is $9000. So you'd have to shoot 450 rolls of Portra to equal the cost of an M11. That's 16,200 photos. For most people, that would take a very long time to get through.

(In the comments, the video creator "corrected" his mistake and said it was 250 rolls, but that's still wrong.)

[EddieJ]

I had a shared stall at a recent Camera Market (Box Hill Melbourne Australia) September. I decide to sell off my collection of expired film 35, 120 Provia, Velvia, Portra, Tri-X, HP5, Plus X Pan F, bulk loader x2, Polaroid 669, 664, Fuji FP100C, Vericolor III, Tungsten, 4x5, 8x10 all out of date from 8 years to 20 twenty +.

Within the first 30mins, the film was GONESKY! 

The amount of hipsters, YT aficionados, and in general younger as in 18-23+ were all over the table.

I made about 1500 AUD just on 669 and FP100C.

35, 120, 4x5 + 8x10 just NUTS the way they were buying. The 2 pieces of advice I gave them was to rate some of the film 6 ISO & bracket the shit out of it.

[Mute-on]

11 hours ago, EddieJ said:

I had a shared stall at a recent Camera Market (Box Hill Melbourne Australia) September. I decide to sell off my collection of expired film 35, 120 Provia, Velvia, Portra, Tri-X, HP5, Plus X Pan F, bulk loader x2, Polaroid 669, 664, Fuji FP100C, Vericolor III, Tungsten, 4x5, 8x10 all out of date from 8 years to 20 twenty +.

Within the first 30mins, the film was GONESKY! 

The amount of hipsters, YT aficionados, and in general younger as in 18-23+ were all over the table.

I made about 1500 AUD just on 669 and FP100C.

35, 120, 4x5 + 8x10 just NUTS the way they were buying. The 2 pieces of advice I gave them was to rate some of the film 6 ISO & bracket the shit out of it.

Eddie, on that note, for expired film (say 10 years), but always kept in freezer, what exposure adjustment would be necessary as a baseline, if any?

[EddieJ]

36 minutes ago, Mute-on said:

Eddie, on that note, for expired film (say 10 years), but always kept in freezer, what exposure adjustment would be necessary as a baseline, if any?

I would always recommend every 10 years - half the ISO.

Therefore 100 ISO with an expiry of 2/2012: + 50% Expiry factor = 50 ISO. That being said I’d shoot at 32 ISO and add another +1/2 (neg) -1/2 (tranny) when exposing.

Shooting out of date film is a little like a lottery. You must always be prepared for the unpredictable. With neg better to overexpose, tranny best to underexpose. No more than 1/2 stop either way. You could always bracket. Full speeds or f-stops.

 

Gotta love these YT self proclaimed warriors that shoot Sunny 16. Get there film processed at a lab, scan and claim that its a sure thing. What they fail to realise is that colour neg has the latitude of up to 7 stops +/- You can really stuff your exposures and the scanner will always pull something usable to see, manipulate and output.

Been a while since we caught up f2f. Fancy a lunch sometime?

I’ve some great news to share.

[Pyrogallol]

An outsider might wonder why people who have the most expensive cameras that money can buy are getting upset by the price of film?

[Ouroboros]

Cost of film?
 I thought that’s what State Pension is for!

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[johnwolf]

I' recently came to the conclusion that my photography benefits from shooting freely and in greater volume, something I've been reluctant to do with film. 

So, yeah, the price of film is a factor and I'm considering a switch to digital. 

John