New video opportunities with SL2s and Ninja V

[beewee]

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Regarding ProRes, see here: https://www.dpreview.com/articles/0330903756/why-raw-video-might-not-be-the-game-changer-you-expect

 

Quote

In the case of ProRes RAW, the tools available to make these adjustments aren't always particularly polished, despite Apple controlling both the format and Final Cut Pro. Not all cameras appear to communicate enough information in their data streams, meaning the Raw adjustment controls for white balance and brightness ('ISO') are not available for some cameras.

 

[beewee]

1 hour ago, Aaron Daniel said:

Hello all, I have just recorded a few tests with the SL2-s and the Atomos Ninja V with ProRes Raw. Importing footage was seamless, but now I am having trouble changing the ISO or colour temperature in the settings. The metadata shows up but it is not allowing me to change these values; is there something I'm missing or needed to while recording? Thanks in advance!

DPreviewTV did a video on ProRes and one thing they noted is that most camera manufacturers don’t support adjusting colour temperature in FinalCut. You can see the chart shown here (4:17): 

Panasonic appears to be the only camera manufacturer that supports colour temperature adjustment in FCP at the time the video was made.

 

Edited May 10, 2022 by beewee

[hansvons]

6 hours ago, beewee said:

I don’t have direct experience in this regard, but I do recall that raw video is not like raw photos in that not all raw features in ProRes is available from all camera manufacturers. This includes colour balance being a potential feature where some manufactures support it but not others.

Raw video codecs like R3D, Arri RAW or BRAW support everything you are used to in a typical photo raw editor, and more like the de-mosaic factor (dialling down the resolution, essentially what the M11 sensor is capable of in-camera). ProRes RAW, however, has always been a hybrid. It uses raw as a compression technology that allows for a relatively small data rate given the bit depth. I like to think of it as more of a ProRes 444 12bit RGB flavour in a 422HQ data rate than an actual raw codec. Missing CT is a huge downside.

8 hours ago, Aaron Daniel said:

The metadata shows up but it is not allowing me to change these values; is there something I'm missing or needed to while recording?

Quite possible that you did everything right.

I think for a hybrid, it's not worth the effort. Windowed sensor, CT greyed out, that massive screen with a heavy battery. I mostly shoot internal UHD 25fps 400 m/bit L-Log, and the quality is impressive for what it is. Yes, ProRes 422 is cleaner without losing texture, and ProRes Raw will be a tad better. But the SL2-S EVF is brilliant, on par with what a high-end cine EVF is like. So, I keep the footprint down and hardly rig the camera with the Ninja. But there are moments when that screen and the higher recording quality make sense. But I'm unwilling to sacrifice the FF format for a half-baked raw. Actually, in-camera, the regular FF readout of the sensor is downsampled to 4K, with no pixel binning. That oversampling in 4K will be lost in ProRes Raw due to the windowed sensor. That'd all be another story if they recorded the whole sensor data. But they chose not or couldn't do it.

Totally unclear why I should be excited about the new ProRes RAW feature.

(While the SL2-S colour is leading the class if used correctly in an HDR Rec2020 environment, the video specs are not overwhelming. Not being able to record 6K through HDMI is an apparent underachievement given that the sister camera S5 can do that in ProRes Raw for half a year or so. That, however, makes me believe that FF raw recording will come to the SL2-S at some point later this year. But why deliver features little by little?)

[matted]

7 hours ago, hansvons said:

Actually, in-camera, the regular FF readout of the sensor is downsampled to 4K, with no pixel binning. That oversampling in 4K will be lost in ProRes Raw due to the windowed sensor. That'd all be another story if they recorded the whole sensor data. But they chose not or couldn't do it.

I do not know enough about how other cameras are implementing ProRes RAW, or enough about how PreRes RAW works (i.e. if it is truly captured prior to demosaicing in image pipeline?), but logically the 4k downsample would have to happen after demosaicing, no? If that is the case then I'm not sure how they would obtain full sensor FF RAW, at least in C4k resolution. Perhaps they could open it up and output full width not-quite-6k-but-almost RAW, which could be down-sampled in post? This would be a little more exciting I would think...

 

 

[Aaron Daniel]

So strange, I can see in this video that you should be able to adjust both ISO and colour temperature – at 0:48

 

But yes, I agree that

8 hours ago, hansvons said:

internal UHD 25fps 400 m/bit L-Log, and the quality is impressive for what it is. Yes, ProRes 422 is cleaner without losing texture, and ProRes Raw will be a tad better. But the SL2-S EVF is brilliant, on par with what a high-end cine EVF is like.

[...]

the video specs are not overwhelming. Not being able to record 6K through HDMI is an apparent underachievement given that the sister camera S5 can do that in ProRes Raw for half a year or so. That, however, makes me believe that FF raw recording will come to the SL2-S at some point later this year. But why deliver features little by little?)

Perhaps full-frame will come trickle along soon 😅 For run and gun work, the internal All-I has been beautiful without the added clunk 

 

[BernardC]

27 minutes ago, matted said:

I do not know enough about how other cameras are implementing ProRes RAW, or enough about how PreRes RAW works (i.e. if it is truly captured prior to demosaicing in image pipeline?), but logically the 4k downsample would have to happen after demosaicing, no?

No. There isn't a definition of what constitutes "raw" for video, other than the notion that each pixel has one colour and one value. Lots of cameras perform over-sampling and still output "raw", for instance the Sigma fp/fpL, or just about every Sony cinema camera. 4K is 8 megapixels (8.3 or 8.8 for UHD and C4K respectively), so there are lots of "extra pixels" in the data stream that you don't want to throw away.

[Psrkn]

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Yes, Final cut pro can adjust the color temperature as shown in

 

[Aaron Daniel]

On 4/22/2022 at 12:32 AM, Photoworks said:

Kondor Blue will have a cage.

"The cage that will work seamlessly between the S1H and the Leica SL2 will be available in mid-May! We worked directly with Leica to design the cage to ensure that it will work!"

Is this still in production?

[Photoworks]

17 hours ago, Aaron Daniel said:

Is this still in production?

they said that they have one for display and the other come in next week

it will be S1H and SL2 combo cage

[Photoworks]

On 6/1/2022 at 9:24 PM, Aaron Daniel said:

Is this still in production?

You can order the S1H over the phone and they will send you one that works for SL2.

 

But even more interesting is the 8sinn cage for SL2

https://www.8sinn.com/8sinn-cage-for-leica-sl2-sl2-s.html

Just $50 more, but in black

[Slender]

omg such great news thank you for showing this one!