Why M10M?

[a.noctilux]

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2 hours ago, Jacobjuul said:

But if I do decide to buy a digital M, the monochrome would be it.

@Jacobjuul

Why don't you try the not too old M(typ 246), then ?

[ramarren]

On 4/11/2022 at 4:34 AM, Jacobjuul said:

I've long contemplated getting an M10-Monochrome since I shoot mostly black and white on film these days. 

However, I am not quite sure what benefit the M10-M would bring me compared to shooting film. I can easily push film to 1600 and even 3200 If I want to and never felt like I needed more (in terms of ISO). BW film is cheap enough (I bulk load) and developing is easy. 

I like the film aesthetic, but I am curious to hear from people who switched from BW film to a monochrome camera. What made you switch and what are your thoughts now? I know a digital monochrome camera renders very differently from film, not sure I am a fan of the super clean look. 

I enjoy the look of film images, so I continue to shoot film cameras. Long since now that I only shoot B&W film, except for instant film. No reason to stop doing so.

That said, I'm more productive working with digital capture, and i've been doing digital capture and image processing for decades. I enjoy it immensely. So what a digital Leica M brings me is the digital capture and image processing workflow combined with a Leica M camera to use. The results with either film or digital capture are entirely up to what I want and can achieve with the medium and tools, and I work hard to make the results satisfying to me, so there's no difference there. 

I've wanted an M Monochrom since the first one was released, and put an M typ 245 Monochrom on order when it was announced in 2014. They were very slow to market after announcement and almost a year later I'd run out of patience for it, put that money into other things, and gave up. I have done my B&W rendering in digital for years and I'm happy with what I achieve that way. But the notion of a monochrome only digital capture camera has continued to appeal to me. 

I spent the last couple of weeks testing and evaluating the Pixii camera, which includes a 16bit MONO-DNG mode, and really enjoyed the experience of having a monochrome camera. So much so that, after I had decided that the Pixii (good though it is) wasn't the right camera for me, I ordered an M10 Monochrom. 

I look forward to the adventure of exploring its capabilities and imaging qualities, and to where that will take me. I will continue to shoot film too.. LOL!  

G

[Herr Barnack]

On 4/30/2022 at 10:52 AM, ramarren said:

...I've wanted an M Monochrom since the first one was released, and put an M typ 245 Monochrom on order when it was announced in 2014. 

...I ordered an M10 Monochrom. 

I look forward to the adventure of exploring its capabilities and imaging qualities, and to where that will take me. I will continue to shoot film too.. LOL!  

G

Congratulations - you made a very good choice.

I fully expect that you will be quite pleased with your M10 Monochrom.

[Photon42]

On 4/30/2022 at 4:52 PM, ramarren said:

I spent the last couple of weeks testing and evaluating the Pixii camera, which includes a 16bit MONO-DNG mode, and really enjoyed the experience of having a monochrome camera. So much so that, after I had decided that the Pixii (good though it is) wasn't the right camera for me, I ordered an M10 Monochrom. 

You will like the thing.

[ramarren]

My M10-M arrived today. I've charged the battery, formatted a 64G card for it, and fitted my friendly Summicron-M 50mm f/2 ... Just time for a few test snaps around the office today. And I'm pleased, very pleased. It's so very much what I'm used to with all the Leica Ms over the years. 

More when I get to doing some real shooting.

G

[Photon42]

The new FW is out to support the updated Visoflex. I have the old one and likely stick with it, but just in case you care.

[ramarren]

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1 hour ago, Photon42 said:

The new FW is out to support the updated Visoflex. I have the old one and likely stick with it, but just in case you care.

I debated on the Visoflex: I don't intend to use one very much—I had the early one that worked with the M--P 240, and the Visoflex (020) that worked with the Leica X typ 113. Both did well enough for my purposes. Since the new Visoflex 2 full resolution isn't supported on the M10-M even with the firmware update, I found a used Visoflex (020) for a good chunk of money less. It will likely do just fine for my needs. 

Regards the M10-M: Yes, I like it. A lot... Posted my first walk in this thread:

 

[Photon42]

I also continue to use the 020. To me even the better (slimmer) alternative. And it works well enough for my needs.

[stefanusj]

i shot both with M10M and MP (with BW films). both are very different character/results, maybe if you have time to do post processing, maybe you can achieve similar results.

i also have tried to compare between M9M vs M10M, all i can says is the difference is pretty minimal, and there are no point to debate which one has more character or which one more similar to analogue. At first, the owners of M9M always said that the CCD has more grit than the CMOS brethren, but after we test it, the results is VERY VERY minimal to our newbie eyes. And it also killed the assumptions that with M9M, the black is more black...

all i can say, if you want TriX or Delta results, just buy analogue... don't waste your valuable time to process digital to be something that it is not.

[Jacobjuul]

Thanks to everyone for the replies.

I have decided to stick to film for now, I don't think I can give up darkroom printing for BW

[ramarren]

10 hours ago, stefanusj said:

i shot both with M10M and MP (with BW films). both are very different character/results, maybe if you have time to do post processing, maybe you can achieve similar results.

i also have tried to compare between M9M vs M10M, all i can says is the difference is pretty minimal, and there are no point to debate which one has more character or which one more similar to analogue. At first, the owners of M9M always said that the CCD has more grit than the CMOS brethren, but after we test it, the results is VERY VERY minimal to our newbie eyes. And it also killed the assumptions that with M9M, the black is more black...

all i can say, if you want TriX or Delta results, just buy analogue... don't waste your valuable time to process digital to be something that it is not.

I never care about getting "Tri-X or Delta results" .. I just care about getting B&W results that satisfy what I'm looking for, which isn't any particular film. 

The long debate on CCD vs CMOS has always been more mysticism than observable reality. Just like the larger debate of "film vs digital" ... a lot of nonsense. Pick whichever one you like, work with it, get good at it, and make satisfying photographs. That's what matters. 

I see the OP has checked in with a decision to continue with film and wet lab printing. That's great.. now just keep going. I'm better at digital,rendering and printing than I ever was at wet lab work, enjoy it more regardless whether I shoot film or capture digitally... but that's *my* experience and observation of myself. It's good that we're each of us different: it would be boring if we were all the same.

G

"Equipment is transitory. Photographs endure."

[IkarusJohn]

I gave up on a dark room many years ago - too many variables, and I don’t think I ever really got very good at it.  I still shoot film with my M-A, and develop the film myself, then scan it.

The M9 based Monochrom was released, I played with Jono’s DNG files, and was amazed.  What started out as flat and not very interesting files, were soon transformed in post-processing,  My Monochrom has been my favourite camera since, with my M-A second.  It’s not messing about whic chemicals which I love about the M-A, it’s the simplicity - no meter, no batteries, just film and simplicity.

That said, if I was starting from scratch, I’d get the M10-M in a heartbeat, or the M11-M …

[Jeff S]

14 hours ago, Jacobjuul said:

Thanks to everyone for the replies.

I have decided to stick to film for now, I don't think I can give up darkroom printing for BW

Nothing like a beautiful silver (or platinum) print.  It’s the reason I shot film, despite the time and complexity involved with darkroom work.

If you ever opt for a Monochrom, inkjet printing can still offer great pleasure, but in a different way.  I don’t know (or care) about the whole CCD vs CMOS debate, but I do find differences working with the M9Mono files vs the M10 Monochrom, primarily resulting from the 18 vs 40 MP and ISO performance.  But of course there are significant platform advantages from the M10, aside from the lack of a RAW-based histogram.  One learns to adapt, regardless.

Jeff

[Jacobjuul]

8 hours ago, Jeff S said:

Nothing like a beautiful silver (or platinum) print.  It’s the reason I shot film, despite the time and complexity involved with darkroom work.

If you ever opt for a Monochrom, inkjet printing can still offer great pleasure, but in a different way.  I don’t know (or care) about the whole CCD vs CMOS debate, but I do find differences working with the M9Mono files vs the M10 Monochrom, primarily resulting from the 18 vs 40 MP and ISO performance.  But of course there are significant platform advantages from the M10, aside from the lack of a RAW-based histogram.  One learns to adapt, regardless.

Jeff

any recommendations for a good inkjet? From what I remember, they do need to be exercised regularly.

[stefanusj]

I'm glad that OP have made a decision. Everybody say 'Film never die', totally agree 100%. 

[geoffreyg]

5 hours ago, Jacobjuul said:

any recommendations for a good inkjet? From what I remember, they do need to be exercised regularly.

Have had great luck with Epson P800. Knock on wood, hasn't clogged after months of inactivity. Lovely. 

[Jeff S]

6 hours ago, Jacobjuul said:

any recommendations for a good inkjet? From what I remember, they do need to be exercised regularly.

Loads of discussion in the Digital Post Processing section of the forum.  Clogging issues have improved greatly, but a lot depends on brand and model.  Epson and Canon are the two dominant brands these days.  
 

Jeff

[Stef63]

On 5/9/2022 at 9:07 AM, Photon42 said:

I also continue to use the 020. To me even the better (slimmer) alternative. And it works well enough for my needs.

Not sure about this.

I posted a visual comparison here.  The new Visoflex 2 feels to me more integrated than an “afterthought” on an M body like the 020.

 

More specific, with the latest new M10x firmware the Visoflex 2 experience is closer to the experience I get on an M11 than the 020 on an M10x body. 
 

Disclaimer: I’m a spectacle user and when photographing with glasses I cannot see the the whole frame trough the 020.  With the new type 2 Visoflex I can see the whole frame which is on top of that brighter, sharper and more close to what you get through the rangefinder.

Yes the 2 is size wise a little bit wider than the 020, but overall I would not call it “slimmer” 

 

Edited May 10, 2022 by Stef63

[pedaes]

37 minutes ago, Stef63 said:

’m a spectacle user and when photographing with glasses I cannot see the the whole frame trough the 020.  With the new type 2 Visoflex I can see the whole frame

There is good explanation why here 

 

Apparently M10 has an 'output limit' that means only 95% of screen is filled providing more eye relief. A possitive negative for spectacle wearers!

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[pedaes]

5 hours ago, geoffreyg said:

From what I remember, they do need to be exercised regularly.

That exercise need be no more than a  nozzle check on plain paper once a month. Little ink used, but all colours in play.

I print mostly b&w but still do this as a couple of the colour lines are disabled for b&w printing.

Edited May 10, 2022 by pedaes