Question about M Series lens detection and 1970 35mm f2 Summicron

[Grey Fox]

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I'm relatively new to  Leica. My father gave me an M6 with some lenses including a 1970 35mm f2 Summicron v.2. 11309. This got me into photography and I recently treated myself to an MP240.

Looking at the MP240's list of lenses for lens detection it includes only 11310 and 11311 for the non-ASPH 35mm Summicron - 11309 isn't in the list.

Should I simply select the 11310/11311? Why is 11309 not included?

Many thanks.

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[a.noctilux]

I have so many non coded lenses that I don't bother select the lens in the list anymore.

- I'd select 11310/11311 for my 35mm Summicron I or II only to have the lens "type 2/35" in EXIF

- just try easily with "select lens" then another frame "not set" to see the differences, I had tried that with non coded lenses and end with

gaining old 100% character with old lenses, some from 1930's.

[TomB_tx]

I've used the 11309 lens since 1970. It was only produced until 1973, and only about 5,000 were made - so Leica may have felt it wasn't worthwhile to add to the code list. I've used the 11310/11311 setting on both M9 & M10, and t works well. The lens characteristics are very similar, but the 309 version has more vignetting, so that isn't corrected as well using the 310 setting. 11309 is notable in having no distortion, while the 11310/311 versions do have a bit. But Leica doesn't correct for distortion by the lens setting, so that doesn't matter.

I haven't used my 11309 much since getting a 35 f2.5 Summarit a few years ago, which is a step up in performance (except at f2.0!). My 309 has also developed a bit of element separation around the edges, but I don't see an effect of that yet.

[lct]

There were 8 variants of Summicron 35/2 before the asph versions AFAIK: 11008, 11104, 11108, 11307, 11308, 11309, 11310 & 11311. Among them, only 11310 & 11311 can be coded by Leica. Reason why they are listed in the lens profiles menu i guess. 

[adan]

4 hours ago, Grey Fox said:

I'm relatively new to  Leica. My father gave me an M6 with some lenses including a 1970 35mm f2 Summicron v.2. 11309. This got me into photography and I recently treated myself to an MP240.

Looking at the MP240's list of lenses for lens detection it includes only 11310 and 11311 for the non-ASPH 35mm Summicron - 11309 isn't in the list.

Should I simply select the 11310/11311? Why is 11309 not included?

Many thanks.

The basic reason is that the 11309 has the thicker chrome M mounting flange that Leica mostly did away with by 1980.

Therefore it was never considered upgradable to 6-bit coding in any case (at least in Leica's view), and they never bothered to support it or write a profile for it specifically. Too old, too different mechanically.

(Leica adds 6-bit coding by replacing that flange - but only made replacements for the thinner, modern, external-screw-attached flanges introduced later in the 1970s. They were not going to get back into the business of making the "fat mounts" mostly discontinued 30 years before - only thin-mount lenses were "grandfathered in." The 35 Summilux of the same era, and the 135 Tele-Elmar, were similarly not fully supported, although they eventually showed up in the menu - more of them around).

Yes - go ahead and use the 11310/11311 menu setting - all the pre-ASPH 35 Summicrons are similar compact double-gauss designs from Dr. Mandler at Leitz Canada, and can use the same color-vignetting correction profile enabled by 6-bit coding. Works for my 11309.....a great little lens that produced some notable photojournalism in the 1970s.

Keep in mind that the real reason Leica created 6-bit coding was not to make EXIF-peepers happy, but to correct for uneven color across the pictures with Leica-M wide-angles on digital sensors. Magenta/blue/cyan "stains" on the long ends of the pictures due to a physical difference ("acceptance angle") between digital sensors and film. As well as when using the add-on IR/UV lens filters the M8 required.

[lct]

3 minutes ago, adan said:

The basic reason is that the 11309 has the thicker chrome M mounting flange that Leica mostly did away with by 1980.

Some lenses with thick mount flange are still listed though: 11869/11870/11860 (35/1.4), 11817 (50/2), 11851 (135/4). 

[Grey Fox]

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Many thanks to all for your extremely helpful  replies.