Best Non-APO 50mm lens for a M.

[lct]

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45 minutes ago, GrittyPhoto said:

This is the title of the thread. The “best 50 for Leica M”. He said he can’t afford the APO, which he regards as the best 50. There’s another 50 APO for a Leica M that is almost identical in the results to the Leica 50APO (albeit not 100% identical). So he can still get a 50APO. That’s the point of the answer. Asking for “the best 50” is already all about everyone’s opinions. 
 

IMO, depending on budget; the answers (as far as “best) are either go for the Summilux; the Cron, or the APO-Lanthar. 
 

there are countless 50mm lenses you can get and they’re all great; but he is asking for “best” and best for me means near optically perfect. The more perfect (usually) the less character is has. If you make it 100% perfect you may end up with a very stale lens. But he didn’t ask for character; he asked for “best”, and to me that means perfection. The APO-Lanthar is the most optically perfect lens VL has made for Leica. So if the first issue he brings up is budget; then to me the 50 APO-Lanthar is one of the best answers to the question taking into account it is the 50 APO Leica that he wants. It’s an alternative he can afford that gets him about 95% there for a fraction of the cost. 

OK @GrittyPhoto but this is sujective all this no? The title of the thread is not “best 50 for Leica M” but "best non-apo 50" i.e., more or less, the opposite to the apo lens you seem to prefer. As for the Apo-Lanthar, it is a lens i would never buy because i prefer compact lenses. So the best for you is not the best for me hence not the best for everybody . Otherwise i own compact CV lenses i like very much like 35/2 or 35/1.4 and if i were after another 50mm lens i would be interested in a CV 50/1.5 certainly, but it's just me...

[pippy]

3 hours ago, GrittyPhoto said:

...But this entire thread is about opinions...im not sure what is so controversial about this answer...

Just your inaccurate choice of wording; that's all. Saying "The 50f2 APO Lanthar is definitely the best 50 for Leica right now" is not expressing an opinion.

Philip.

[laowai_]

2 hours ago, lct said:

OK @GrittyPhoto but this is sujective all this no? 

Could be but doesn’t have to be subjective. 

To make this into an objective question one needs a measure of goodness.

One wold define a variety of criteria (size, weight. MTF, availability, street price). Next assign a ‘weight’ to the criteria (e.g. MTF is 50% of the total score, weight is 5%). 
The lens with the highest score is objectively the best for the given criteria.

This is sort of what Peter Karen does in the Radar charts that he shows in some of his presentations. 

Your preference may be different so you may have to adjust for your specific use case.

 

[pippy]

10 minutes ago, GrittyPhoto said:

What I said was, and I quote: 

”the 50f2 APO Lanthar is definitely the best 50 for Leica right now, next to the 50APO, 50 summicron non-APO and 50 summilux.” 

It’s not inaccurate at all. It actually very accurately represents my view, which is what an opinion is...

You are wrong but I'm not going to educate you on the correct use of the English Language.

Bye!

P.

[lct]

1 hour ago, GrittyPhoto said:

Not sure if you’ve handled it in person, but it does look a lot bigger in videos and pictures I’ve seen on the internet.

Let's see things in an "objective" way then .

M 50/2 v4
Length: 42mm
Diameter: 52mm
Filters: 39mm

M 50/2 v5
Length: 43.5mm
Diameter: 53mm
Filters: 39mm

M 50/2 apo
Length: 47mm
Diameter: 53mm
Filters: 39mm

CV 50/2 apo
Length: 53mm
Diameter: 55.6mm
Filters: 49mm

[lct]

6 minutes ago, GrittyPhoto said:

But the 50APO VL isn’t too big. It’s about the size of the Summilux

You see the subjectivity i was referring to. Comparing 50/2 to 50/1.4 lenses. With a bit of effort the CV 50/2 apo will become tiny compared to the Noctilux 50/0.95 .

[Jeff S]

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4 hours ago, Reddy said:

But if you are main B&W shooter then the 50mm radioactive is your best choice, look classic on the M too.

What’s the best bag for a radioactive lens?

Jeff

[pippy]

55 minutes ago, lct said:

Let's see things in an "objective" way then .

M 50/2 v4
Length: 42mm
Diameter: 52mm
Filters: 39mm

M 50/2 v5
Length: 43.5mm
Diameter: 53mm
Filters: 39mm

M 50/2 apo
Length: 47mm
Diameter: 53mm
Filters: 39mm

CV 50/2 apo
Length: 53mm
Diameter: 55.6mm
Filters: 49mm

Thanks for compiling that comparative list, lct; the question has been resolved. From those figures it's now plain for everyone to see that the v4 Summicron is "definitely" the best choice of 50mm f2 non-apo lens for a Leica!

Philip.

[Dennis]

The best 50 (apo and non apo) is the Summicron v5. Period. Because it's the only one I have and ever tried 

[lct]

35 minutes ago, pippy said:

Thanks for compiling that comparative list, lct; the question has been resolved. From those figures it's now plain for everyone to see that the v4 Summicron is "definitely" the best choice of 50mm f2 non-apo lens for a Leica!

Now comes a thorny question. Which "best" focus tab is there for the 50/2 v4. Convex or concave "definitely"?

[pippy]

Just now, lct said:

Now comes a thorny question. Which "best" focus tab is there for the 50/2 v4. Convex or concave "definitely"?

Well, it's definitely not the concave one which was on my v4 as, unfortunately, it broke off the other week and the retaining bolt which held it in place is now inside the lens...

Philip.

[lct]

48 minutes ago, pippy said:

Well, it's definitely not the concave one which was on my v4 as, unfortunately, it broke off the other week and the retaining bolt which held it in place is now inside the lens...

Sorry for that, should be easy to fix normally but i have never tried myself.

Edited April 16, 2022 by lct

[pippy]

2 hours ago, lct said:

Sorry for that, should be easy to fix normally but i have never tried myself.

Thanks for the thought. lct.

Clearly a trip to the lens-doctor is imminent. Happily I have a number of other 50mm options to use in the meantime and, by a peculiar stroke of luck, all of those substitutes are also "definitely" the best M-mount non-APO 50mm f2 lens(es) so I'll still have sufficient stuff to tide me over...

Apologies to the OP for the silly derail.

Philip.

[M2Pete]

Oh dear. It seems I've created a bit of fracas within the forum with my post.

For the record: Yes, I was seeking opinion with regards to lux and /or cron owners but I did state, "Any ideas or owners of the cron or lux that prefer one or the other? Any other makes for suggestion over what Leica offers?". 

My guiding philosophy in life and photography is: Whatever floats your boat, just do not put a hole in mine or anyone else's.

I have several VC lenses (28 Ultron, 40 Classic, 50 Nokton), all of which I enjoy, but I have no experience with Leica 50's and it was this opinion I originally sought over others. And the phrase "over" seems to be where the rub occurred.

I have since creating the post secured a Summicron 50mm f/2 V4 but there is a real caveat to this. I did seriously research the VC Lanther 50mm and was heavily tempted but when a friend offered me his father's lens (the cron I purchased) at roughly the same price I chose Leica for my 50mm f/2.

I am a rather frivolous fruit and may very well try the VC Lanthar at a later date but for now the cron floats my boat and someone's opinion, be it strongly  put forth or not, doesn't cause a hole at present.

Thank you for all of your replies.

Edited April 16, 2022 by M2Pete

[pippy]

2 hours ago, M2Pete said:

Oh dear. It seems I've created a bit of fracas within the forum with my post...

...I have since creating the post secured a Summicron 50mm f/2 V4...

Nonsense, M2Pete; this is par for the course.

Everyone has their own favourite lenses and, understandably, many folks feel justified in proposing their own #1 choice as the preferred option and will promote it so accordingly. Nor did any 'rub' occur AFAICT with the use of the word 'over'; none whatsoever. The use of the word "definitely", OTOH, is a very different matter.

Just on the slight off-chance that you don't already fully appreciate the optical qualities of the lens which you will receive please bear in mind that the v4 Summicron - originally released in 1979 - has an optical design that was/is considered to be so superb that it is still with us, unchanged, to this very day in the 'regular' 50mm f2.0 Summicron lens. Forty-three years and counting says an awful lot about the performance of any lens.

Philip.

[IkarusJohn]

Lots of very positive write ups about the v4 50 Summicron.  I’m sure you will enjoy it

For myself, I have a black chrome APO 50 Summicron (a lovely little lens, with beautiful smooth bokeh, and not boring at all; but expensive); a 50 Noctilux 0.95 (huge, heavy, expensive, but lovely - not sure what I keep it when ->); the 50 Summilux-M ASPH is probably my keeper lens (soft wide open, sharp stopped down, “reasonable” price by Leica standards, and modest size); and finally a Summitar 50/2 LTM from 1948 (cheap as chips, weird swirly bokeh, and don’t collapse it into your M camera, but fun).

I think M cameras really suit 50s best of all, coupled with a 28.  My best lenses for Leica M, hands down for all sorts of reasons, are (in order) - 50 APO Summicron -> 28 Summilux -> 75 Summilux -> 21 Summilux -> 35 Distagon … but I’d keep the 50 Summilux ASPH, as it’s a classic lens.

[lct]

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Edited April 17, 2022 by lct

[IkarusJohn]

2 hours ago, lct said:

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[Erato]

On 4/3/2022 at 11:06 AM, M2Pete said:

I know the answer to this is very subjective so I'll try to set some perimeters/guidelines and hope that helps. I had a stroke four years ago that, despite attempts at recovery, has left me dependent on a walker and really slowed me down. Needless to say, it changed the way I take photos and, while the new learning curve has been interesting I have had to settle acknowledging on a couple of realities. I use to shoot primarily 28mm or 25, sometime 21 or 25mm, but cannot do that now (maybe landscape?) as my walker slowed my pace keeps me from getting close and I am no longer adept at reacting in a timely fashion. So I'm trying other options.

That the end of the sob story.

I've started focusing on 50mm and even 75mm lenses. I have plenty of 50's but now really looking for a fast 1.4 or 1.8. The Leica APOs are a little above my pay grade but, selling some of my wider lenses, I am able to look at Sumicron and Sumilux options. I am by no means adverse to other brands (my standard 35mm was a Zeiss Biogon) but the Sumilux really has caught my eye.

Any ideas or owners of the cron or lux that prefer one or the other? Any other makes for suggestion over what Leica offers?

Much thanks!

On which camera?

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[M2Pete]

1 minute ago, Erato said:

On which camera?

M2 for film (usually B&W @ 400) and an M-D 262.