Abuse for using a Leica???

[kivis]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

While shooting my lovely M-P 240, I have had numerous folks ask me if that is a film camera. A perfectly legitimate question in my mind.

[raizans]

My guess is he was being sarcastic, but his delivery was too rude and biting for the joke to land. Swing and a miss.

[Stuart Richardson]

I was photographing an editorial for a food magazine once, and had been tasked with visiting a number of restaurants around the city and photographing them. I arrived at one restaurant I had on the list and explained who I was and what I was doing, and I asked if I could take some photos. The woman who was running the place was stand-offish and said no. I asked her again and if she would mind if I just took a few pictures, and I pulled out my M9. She looked at it and said, "Oh, I thought you meant with a real camera. Sure, that is fine." I am still not sure exactly what she expected, but I thought it was pretty funny.

Edited June 11, 2022 by Stuart Richardson

[Herr Barnack]

We can't have people running around with real cameras taking pictures of food willy-nilly.  There would be...  ANARCHY.  😳

Edited June 14, 2022 by Herr Barnack

[rick_dykstra]

On 4/1/2022 at 8:05 AM, 250swb said:

Are you sure he wasn't carrying a Leica over his other shoulder and you didn't see it?

Exactly! This happened on the Champs Élysées during a family grand tour, soon after release of the M9. Our family was looking through a shop window when an elderly gentleman pulled up next to us, to take a picture of the display with his M8.2. He had his son with him, about 40 years old. From their talking - American. My own, sharp eyed, 12 YO son said, ‘Look dad. A Leica!’ I replied in a voice loud enough for all to hear, ‘Oh don’t be silly. Nobody uses Leicas any more!’ There was the click of a shutter and then they both turned to us. The son said, ‘Well he does!’, sounding defensive and proud of his father. I smiled at them with that look that says, ‘Surprise!’, and lifted up my M9. My wife and kids were also smiling at our new American friends, who were amused by having been tricked.

[hepcat]

On 3/28/2022 at 2:32 PM, barnabythebear said:

Hi all,

Just an anecdote from the weekend.

I was out enjoying the sun and taking some shots around Notting Hill, London with my Q2 and a guy (American for detail), walked past and sneered at me "where's your proper camera then?". I was quite taken aback but It got me thinking about whether other photographers resent the brand or its users? I sometimes read the comments on Leica news items over at DP Review and there does seem to be a minority who have trouble with Leica and its users.

Thank you,

Nige.

 

On 3/29/2022 at 7:30 AM, Mute-on said:

Those with nothing clever to say will frequently say something ignorant, condescending, or just plain stupid. 
 

As an American, if you'll allow me to be ignorant and condescending and sound stupid for a moment,  allow me to say that REAL cameras use film in a format 6x6cm or larger.  Anything else is merely a miniature camera, or a computer.  It's obvious that the passerby was a film snob.  Hmmph...

 Says the guy who has three Kiev 88CM bodies and a phalanx of CZJ glass and gets sneered at regularly because it's NOT a Hasselblad.    🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

(I've had a half-dozen Hassys over the years and a bunch of Zeiss glass and I just got tired of the expense of maintaining leaf shutters.) 

[erl]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

9 hours ago, hepcat said:

 

As an American, if you'll allow me to be ignorant and condescending and sound stupid for a moment,  allow me to say that REAL cameras use film in a format 6x6cm or larger.  Anything else is merely a miniature camera, or a computer.  It's obvious that the passerby was a film snob.  Hmmph...

 Says the guy who has three Kiev 88CM bodies and a phalanx of CZJ glass and gets sneered at regularly because it's NOT a Hasselblad.    🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

(I've had a half-dozen Hassys over the years and a bunch of Zeiss glass and I just got tired of the expense of maintaining leaf shutters.) 

You surprise me. I have used almost exclusively Hasselblad for about 40+ years of my working life and never had a serous failure. Regular service is a given, but considerably cheaper than service for my car. I currently own 4 Blad bodies, 7 or 8 lenses (not sure of the actual count), multiple magazines etc. I did progress from the Compur to the Prontor shutters over the years, but mainly for optical improvements with lenses. I still love using that gear, but with age I find Leica a lot easier to tote around.

I find it a bit sad to contemplate the ultimate fate of all my gear in fact. The time is coming when I will no longer be able to use it, yet I cannot bring myself to part with it. It all deserves a serious user to take it over.

BTW, I would not sneer at you for using 'lesser' gear. In all probability your photographs could be superior to mine, and that is what counts.

[hepcat]

15 hours ago, erl said:

You surprise me. I have used almost exclusively Hasselblad for about 40+ years of my working life and never had a serous failure. Regular service is a given, but considerably cheaper than service for my car. I currently own 4 Blad bodies, 7 or 8 lenses (not sure of the actual count), multiple magazines etc. I did progress from the Compur to the Prontor shutters over the years, but mainly for optical improvements with lenses. I still love using that gear, but with age I find Leica a lot easier to tote around.

I find it a bit sad to contemplate the ultimate fate of all my gear in fact. The time is coming when I will no longer be able to use it, yet I cannot bring myself to part with it. It all deserves a serious user to take it over.

BTW, I would not sneer at you for using 'lesser' gear. In all probability your photographs could be superior to mine, and that is what counts.

Well, thank you erl.   I'm in a similar situation.  I sold all my Hassy gear (for the second time) in about 2016 having decided that having to maintain, and having that much tied up in medium format equipment at my age was just foolish when I'm not doing much commercial work any longer.  And then a couple of years later I decided I missed it.  And I bought the Kiev gear, starting in 2018 with eight or ten CZJ and Hartblei lenses for about what I had in my 503CX and an 80mm.   What I wasn't prepared for is how much they've gone up in value.  But I really don't care.  I just don't have much invested, and all of the lenses will adapt to my Phase One bodies, which is a bonus.  And yes, the Leicas are much easier to carry about. 

About the same time I was selling my Hassy gear, I realized that I couldn't see the focusing patch clearly in my M bodies any longer, so I parted with all of my M gear as well.  I fell into some Leicaflex bodies and R lenses pretty inexpensively late last year, and I've since picked up an R5 and R6.2, again both inexpensively and serendipitously and I have to confess how pleased I am to have my Leitz glass back.  

I have an entire studio setup, my MF digital, MF film, and a small collection of 35mm film and digital gear that my family will have to dispose of one day.  And I'm ok with that.  They know how much I enjoy having it around, and behind bicycles, my only remaining vice it seems.   
 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

[Anthony Miller]

I think he was being funny. I always told my coworker to get a real camera (film) instead of the "digital imager" he liked to use.

[Martin B]

I had one incident in the past where one of my Leica M cameras caused unwanted attention. On one of my trips in Germany another visitor spotted the red Leica dot on my M6 and loudly said "Oh, here is a Leica". We chatted for a few minutes about the camera and photography afterwards. As photographer I try to be as inconspicuous as possible, therefore this situation changed the way I am using my Leica gear since. I use gaffer tape securely to tape the red dot and the brand/model name (trick is to tape it only on the sides and not directly on the Leica dot or brand label otherwise some paint can peel off when removing the tape). I never caused attention since with my gear - I believe others consider it to be a common mirrorless camera as for example Fuji makes them. 

[RexGig0]

A portion of the human species seems to feel a compulsion to find fault with whatever is a convenient target. In my sixty years on this earth, it is my perception that this seems to be trending in a worse direction, as more folks seem to feel entitled to speak more hatefully.

[Herr Barnack]

23 hours ago, RexGig0 said:

A portion of the human species seems to feel a compulsion to find fault with whatever is a convenient target. In my sixty years on this earth, it is my perception that this seems to be trending in a worse direction, as more folks seem to feel entitled to speak more hatefully.

It is with much regret that I have to agree with you. 

The obnoxious snobbishness we sometimes see in the world of photography is one of the most childish manifestations of this spitefulness. 

It's a sad state of affairs.

 

[tappan]

Sorry that happened to you. I get that a bit, as well.
Not to get to dramatic or deep, but my Leica experience is a personal one. What I mean is, I am a news photographer here in Boston, I have been since 1987, and I am a Canon user. My Leica experience happens away from hard news. My Leica is rolled out when the light becomes magic. For sunrise, or sunset, or lightning, or family. Yes, I know it is infamous for it's reportage, but I use it when I choose to use it. When I do an in depth picture story/photo essay, it will also come out of the camera bag.
I love my M10-P.
Mark

[DenverSteve]

It was probably an ill-formed compliment.  Like "not much of a camera", waiting for you to turn so he could wink or acknowledge that you had a Leica.  I've been a professional photographer, mostly retired now, for over 40 years and have never had anyone (even during the Nikon vs. Canon wars) when anyone commented about what camera I was using.  Actually once around 2 years ago I was out on a COVID restricted urban walk-about with my Hasselblad digital, when someone called "nice camera" at a time when I thought I was invisible. I was more surprised someone recognized that camera, as large as it is, than the comment you received.  The fact that he was aware that you had a Leica means more than the comment. 

I would have replied, "Yep. It's all I can afford.", and left him with a wink. 

Edited November 6, 2022 by DenverSteve

[Pyrogallol]

When people start arguing over Canon or Nikon I point out that Canon originally used Nikkor lenses.

[Tom R]

Of the many unpleasant and sometimes threatening encounters I've had photographing in public places, NO ONE ever gave a toss what kind of camera I was using. The problem was that I was using a camera. It's odd that a large number of people can take as many photographs as they wish using their cell phones, but the moment someone sees you with a camera in your hand the odds are pretty good that you have some "explaining to do"--and no, giving them your business card and/or explaining why you are in "their little piece" of a public place will not cut it. 

I wonder if anyone on this forum has expert knowledge of the latest laws about photographing public places/events in America? For instance, I recently read through the explanation provided by the following link:

https://activerain.com/blogsview/1443228/-photographing-people-in-a-public-place---what-is-the-law-

While I have complete confidence in her assertions, I have no confidence that my assailants will cede the point. In fact, I've had several encounters with police who are either unaware or disinterested in such constitutional questions. Photographing anything outside of your private dwelling in America is difficult, but it seems more fraught today. Anyone wager where we'll be in a year or so?

[erl]

1 hour ago, Tom R said:

Of the many unpleasant and sometimes threatening encounters I've had photographing in public places, NO ONE ever gave a toss what kind of camera I was using. The problem was that I was using a camera. It's odd that a large number of people can take as many photographs as they wish using their cell phones, but the moment someone sees you with a camera in your hand the odds are pretty good that you have some "explaining to do"--and no, giving them your business card and/or explaining why you are in "their little piece" of a public place will not cut it. 

I wonder if anyone on this forum has expert knowledge of the latest laws about photographing public places/events in America? For instance, I recently read through the explanation provided by the following link:

https://activerain.com/blogsview/1443228/-photographing-people-in-a-public-place---what-is-the-law-

While I have complete confidence in her assertions, I have no confidence that my assailants will cede the point. In fact, I've had several encounters with police who are either unaware or disinterested in such constitutional questions. Photographing anything outside of your private dwelling in America is difficult, but it seems more fraught today. Anyone wager where we'll be in a year or so?

I won't be in America!

[Herr Barnack]

2 hours ago, Tom R said:

Of the many unpleasant and sometimes threatening encounters I've had photographing in public places, NO ONE ever gave a toss what kind of camera I was using. The problem was that I was using a camera. It's odd that a large number of people can take as many photographs as they wish using their cell phones, but the moment someone sees you with a camera in your hand the odds are pretty good that you have some "explaining to do"--and no, giving them your business card and/or explaining why you are in "their little piece" of a public place will not cut it. 

I wonder if anyone on this forum has expert knowledge of the latest laws about photographing public places/events in America? For instance, I recently read through the explanation provided by the following link:

https://activerain.com/blogsview/1443228/-photographing-people-in-a-public-place---what-is-the-law-

While I have complete confidence in her assertions, I have no confidence that my assailants will cede the point. In fact, I've had several encounters with police who are either unaware or disinterested in such constitutional questions. Photographing anything outside of your private dwelling in America is difficult, but it seems more fraught today. Anyone wager where we'll be in a year or so?

@Tom R  I am wondering if your experiences are due to geography - in my area, I have had nowhere near the problems you have encountered. 

In my state (Indiana), I would imagine that hostility toward photographers might vary depending on what location in the state I might be in.  I have photographed in Indianapolis - the state's largest city - with no harassment or confrontation.  In a smaller city in the southern part of the state, I have had people verbally harass me a couple of times, but it has amounted to perhaps 1% of the time I was photographing in that city.  

The biggest issue I have ever had in the U.S. was in Nashville, where a security guard became belligerent with me, called the real police and then lied to them about the events that had taken place.  The police officers interviewed me and accepted my account of the events with the security guard.  As it turns out, false reporting to law enforcement is a crime in all 50 states.  Somehow my account of events came across to the police officers as truthful compared to the security guard's account. 

It is unfortunate that photographers have to endure the nonsense of the ignorant, arrogant "Karens" (both female and male) who think it is their station in life to impose their will on others.  Here is a sad and sick tale of such a person:  https://www.forbes.com/sites/gregorymcneal/2014/07/14/woman-assaults-minor-over-a-drone-gets-mere-probation/?sh=6d65b7c77963

In the end, her supposed "punishment" was probation, but she did open the door to a lawsuit from the young man she attacked.  I hope he walked through that door and she was made to regret her insane actions.

The bottom line is this:  As long as we are not acting unlawfully, the law is on the side of we photographers.

 

 

Edited November 6, 2022 by Herr Barnack

[Tom R]

2 hours ago, Herr Barnack said:

@Tom R  I am wondering if your experiences are due to geography - in my area, I have had nowhere near the problems you have encountered. 

In my state (Indiana), I would imagine that hostility toward photographers might vary depending on what location in the state I might be in.  I have photographed in Indianapolis - the state's largest city - with no harassment or confrontation.  In a smaller city in the southern part of the state, I have had people verbally harass me a couple of times, but it has amounted to perhaps 1% of the time I was photographing in that city.  

The biggest issue I have ever had in the U.S. was in Nashville, where a security guard became belligerent with me, called the real police and then lied to them about the events that had taken place.  The police officers interviewed me and accepted my account of the events with the security guard.  As it turns out, false reporting to law enforcement is a crime in all 50 states.  Somehow my account of events came across to the police officers as truthful compared to the security guard's account. 

It is unfortunate that photographers have to endure the nonsense of the ignorant, arrogant "Karens" (both female and male) who think it is their station in life to impose their will on others.  Here is a sad and sick tale of such a person:  https://www.forbes.com/sites/gregorymcneal/2014/07/14/woman-assaults-minor-over-a-drone-gets-mere-probation/?sh=6d65b7c77963

In the end, her supposed "punishment" was probation, but she did open the door to a lawsuit from the young man she attacked.  I hope he walked through that door and she was made to regret her insane actions.

The bottom line is this:  As long as we are not acting unlawfully, the law is on the side of we photographers.

 

 

Well, I've been photographing public spaces since the late 1980's from New Orleans (where I was born and spent the first 14 years of my life) to New England. I will say that I've had fewer problems in the Northeastern cities; that was during the late 90's to 2015 or thereabouts. I will also note that most of the problems I've had have NOT been in cities or urban settings--rather they've occurred in suburban and exurban settings. In Montgomery County, Maryland (a suburb of DC), for example, I was several times accosted by people who thought I was photographing their homes or their children when in most cases I was photographing the environment, such as the distribution and types of homes in near-rural areas. I had a guy run out of his house and flash an FBI badge while photographing near a wooded area in another Maryland suburb. He threatened to confiscate my equipment and bring me in for photographing the fence running along his yard. This last event occurred around 2014 ... or thereabouts.

Since retiring in 2017, I've moved to southwest Florida where I've had some "interesting" encounters with people on residential streets (never mind cities)--in the most recent (and memorable) example, I wound up talking down an an old man with a rifle. He accused me of secretly photographing his house when he wasn't home and working for the government. I am reminded of something attributed to Henri Cartier-Bresson, which I paraphrase: "It's better to click with people than to click the shutter." I explained to him that I was actually photographing a church, the first established in this particular village; I am working on a book of photographs about this village. Obviously, he did not shoot me, but I made damned sure that I wouldn't need to re-visit this particular location.

In sum: I think that the tone, frequency and volatility of these kinds of encounters has accelerated since 2016. But, in summary, you might be correct: location is everything.

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[erl]

About a week ago, I was 'accosted' by a lady who noticed my camera and remarked, ' that's an old one'. I replied, ' not as old as me, but nearly!' I was using my 111f which (nearly) always attracts attention. I don't mind except that it interrupts my 'flow' of thought/shooting.

She asked if I could still get film for it. Then asked how I processed it. I said 'with great enthusiasm.'