Leica iiif serial numbers

[Shakelion]

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Hoping to clear some confusion.

I have a iiic with self-timer, black synch numbers and a serial number all sources date as 1954. On Stephen Gandy's site he states that no black numeral iiif models were produced with self-timer, that it could only be a retrofitted one. On the same site the list of serial numbers compiled from Leica records indicates it's from the 1954 batch that did have timers fitted. It also says the next batch, also with timers, was made in Canada. There's no mention of synch number colour in this list.

The Leica Wiki site claims it's one of a batch of 1,000 made in Canada with red numerals, although the serial number range they give is 16,000. Were all numbers in the range used? I've checked closely and the synch numbers are definitely black, not dirtied-over red.

So, conflicting information depending which site you visit. Can anyone shed some light? I've read earlier discussions on this topic but nothing seems conclusive.

 

Thanks, Paul.

 

[a.noctilux]

57 minutes ago, Shakelion said:

Hoping to clear some confusion.

I have a iiic with self-timer, black synch numbers and a serial number all sources date as 1954. On Stephen Gandy's site he states that no black numeral iiif models were produced with self-timer, that it could only be a retrofitted one. On the same site the list of serial numbers compiled from Leica records indicates it's from the 1954 batch that did have timers fitted. It also says the next batch, also with timers, was made in Canada. There's no mention of synch number colour in this list.

The Leica Wiki site claims it's one of a batch of 1,000 made in Canada with red numerals, although the serial number range they give is 16,000. Were all numbers in the range used? I've checked closely and the synch numbers are definitely black, not dirtied-over red.

So, conflicting information depending which site you visit. Can anyone shed some light? I've read earlier discussions on this topic but nothing seems conclusive.

 

Thanks, Paul.

 

Hello Paul,

Your last words "nothing seems conclusive" can resume very well "Leitz/Leica serial numbers consistency".

In the past, I believed that the serial numbers are something very reliable and unique, I was wrong.

 

Many reasons to not bother.

Have you seen "*" or "D" (duplicate) after some lenses or Leica serial numbers , so even then at Leitz/Leica they made some "dups".

Many Leica had been "upgraded" by factory or worse by independant repairers, so features can change in a large bit.

Leitz/Leica used to honore customers special requests, so rare beast with special features not in phase with the model.

...

Have a look here, at RFF

https://www.rangefinderforum.com/node/93304

 

Edited March 27, 2022 by a.noctilux

[tranquilo67]

Hi,

According to my research Canada meant in several cases, exceptions to the sequence of the serial numbers and features, but in my opinion it seems quite unlikely about the combination BD with Self Timer. Please keep in mind that RD cameras have important internal changes, not only different speeds but also, and as far as I know, they have an improved shutter mechanism. I don't know if a high skilled technician could help identifying if the self timer is original or a later upgrade.

ELC is full of exceptions to the serial number coherence, (as an example you can see the discussions https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/314656-early-iiif-rd-canada/ or  https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/327056-leica-iiif-end-of-production-canada/).

So, even when it's difficult to state concrete numbers, it seems clear that when ELC is involved there are even more exceptions but, once more, a different thing is earlier or later samples and a different topic is a different camera, so I'd say that the most probable option is the later upgrade.

Take care,

Augusto

[jerzy]

as per service documentation self timer was on from 685001, so ST on DB or earlier RD shall be considered as  addition. Exceptions are possible🙂