1943 Luftwaffen Eigentum

[dubois pierre]

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Luigi here is a Luftwaffe leica IIIb sole with the sticker for film loading instructions in 4 languages.

I think that all the Leica cameras military had this sticker when they left the Leitz workshops.

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The subject on these cameras is very interesting, I had in my collection some Leicas used by the German armies 
(Luftwaffe, Whermacht and Kriesgmarine) and also by the English and American armies.

LEITZ AND THE PROPAGANDA OF NAZI GERMANY
Pierre Dubois collection

One cannot separate the Leica brand and its cameras from the second world war and its implication despite the 
feelings Anti-Nazi by Leitz. The three elements that will compose and serve the Nazi propaganda across Europe 
will be, photography, cinema and the press with its newspapers "Signal" for the Wehrmacht and "Adler" for the 
Luftwaffe. The latter being the work of General Hermann Göring air minister. The Nazi leaders were quick to
 create in each army corps of propaganda units (Propaganda Kompanien) or P.K. In 1942, no less than 15,000 men 
were divided between the Luftwaffe, Wehrmacht, Kriegsmarine and Waffen SS.
The photographers composing these units are recruited on their experience civilian professional. The vast majority of cameras
assigned to these propaganda units will be identified by engravings, color of specific coatings. The official 
ameras will be the Leica IIIa, b, c, as well as motorized cameras from the Robot brand capable of taking 4-5
shots in one second. Others will be mounted on aircraft coupled to the machine guns. More confidential, we find
some Contax III in service and probably Kine Exakta.

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[250swb]

3 hours ago, luigi bertolotti said:

after (roughly) deleting their military writings.

 

It's an interesting thought. The top plate deletion looks like there is still some trace of numbers or text visible, and I wonder if the thick paint (bitumen?) used for filling in the deletions isn't also filling faint traces of the original engravings? They can't have gone very deep with grinding out the text or they'd have left a hole.

[luigi bertolotti]

48 minutes ago, 250swb said:

It's an interesting thought. The top plate deletion looks like there is still some trace of numbers or text visible, and I wonder if the thick paint (bitumen?) used for filling in the deletions isn't also filling faint traces of the original engravings? They can't have gone very deep with grinding out the text or they'd have left a hole.

The two last diguts indeed looks like "79", consistent with the contract number 38079 quoted by Pierre Dubois, which can be found in several IIIck of that period (I see in Lager 4 /5 items , all in that s/n range - black, and chrome too))

[Randy Cole]

@250swb, the last two digits are clearly visible (79), and I can just see the F at the beginning.  In terms of the black paint, yes, I'm sure that at least the FL number on top would be more visible if I removed the paint.  The rear Luftwaffen Eigentum engraving I'm not sure, it's really quite a deep deletion job.  I'm actually scared to remove the black paint for fear of damaging the original grey finish.  I also like the story of the deletion, it is a bit integral to the camera I think, what someone did to cover up the origins of the camera.

 

[dubois pierre]

These military cameras were most often taken from the battlefield and kept as war trophies by US and Soviet 
soldiers. When they returned to the country they erased or camouflaged these inscriptions of the Third Reich 
to avoid problems with military customs.

 

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[Didisheim]

Leica Serial Number 374520 GOLD with inscription KRIEGSMARINE

Is it a real Leica ?

 

[jaapv]

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Gold?  Kriegsmarine? That sounds highly unlikely and like a Russian fake. On the off-chance post a few photographs. 

[Didisheim]

thank you ! Jaap for such a swift answer ! IMG_1257.HEICIMG_1255.HEIC

[jaapv]

Sorry Complete fake and in a sad condition too. 

[Anbaric]

1 hour ago, Didisheim said:

thank you ! Jaap for such a swift answer ! IMG_1257.HEICIMG_1255.HEIC

Looks like a Zorki-C or 2C (also known as the S or 2S - the 'C' is a Cyrillic letter). Someone has stripped off the chrome to the brass underneath and added the engravings.

https://sovietcameras.org/zorki-cameras/

[Didisheim]

Many thanks to both of you.

We have six other Leica or fake Leica including one M3 and one M4 as well as a one IIIc

Is there a specific place on this forum were I can post images of those and ask assistance for valuation ?

Thanks again

Didi

 

[Didisheim]

III C has number 480016, M3 is 1088906 and M4 is 1227888

I also have 121246 and 136144 but they are most probably false

 

[Anbaric]

1 hour ago, Didisheim said:

Many thanks to both of you.

We have six other Leica or fake Leica including one M3 and one M4 as well as a one IIIc

Is there a specific place on this forum were I can post images of those and ask assistance for valuation ?

Thanks again

Didi

 

You will never see a fake that looks anything like an M3 or M4. There is a Chinese copy, but it's very rare and worth more than the originals, so nobody would give it fake engravings. It's hard to fake a IIIc convincingly. Very few fakes will have slow speed dials, and on a real IIIc you can see the chrome top plate extending down vertically either side of the lens mount.

The serial numbers don't tell us anything on their own, you'd have to post images (you could start another thread in this sub-forum for the others) but while people can give opinions on whether the cameras are genuine, valuations aren't allowed here. You can look at completed/sold ebay auctions for cameras in similiar condition.

Post images from the top and front at least, with the cases off. Jpegs rather than the ehic files you posted before are better, because they can be embedded in your posts and more easily viewed.

Edited March 16, 2024 by Anbaric