Leica APS-C -- No more!

[IkarusJohn]

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I will use the two TL mount lenses I have for as long as my TL2 works.  What then?  I don’t see myself using them on my SL (possibly the 11-23, as I sold my SL 16-35).  I guess I’ll sell them for pennies.  For all the rage and doomsaying on this thread, I’m not particularly concerned about the end of the CL/TL cameras.  They always had a shelf-life - the lenses, not so much.

I have M and R mount lenses, and they have a more secure future …

[Mr.Prime]

Had the CL and it's lenses been dogs there would have been less 'rage and doomsaying' but the CL and it's lenses were good and folk were looking forward to the CL2.

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, IkarusJohn said:

I will use the two TL mount lenses I have for as long as my TL2 works.  What then?  I don’t see myself using them on my SL (possibly the 11-23, as I sold my SL 16-35).  I guess I’ll sell them for pennies.  For all the rage and doomsaying on this thread, I’m not particularly concerned about the end of the CL/TL cameras.  They always had a shelf-life - the lenses, not so much.

I have M and R mount lenses, and they have a more secure future …

While in post #647 the mention, that the cause of the rage has been sold some time ago. 

Happy Easter

dear CL - owners and ex-CL owners

[Guest]

1 hour ago, wlaidlaw said:

I am totally aware of the R lens prices on eBay as I would like to get a 28-90 lens for my various R cameras and good ones are all around £3,000. Same thing with the 19mm Elmarit.

Wilson

When Canon changed to the EOS system, FD lenses could not be used on any SLRs at all, due to their shorter back flange distance. 
Today‘s prices for FD lenses  1.4/24mm, 1.2/55 aspherical and 1.2/85 have tripled compared to what they fetched a very few years ago, not to mention when they were discontinued towards the end of the 1980-ies.

[Le Chef]

8 hours ago, lct said:

I use a Fujifilm "M mount adapter for X mount" on my X-E2. Works fine with M lenses but it is not made for L or TL lenses obviously. I don't quite understand why CL users want to sell their camera but Fuji is certainly a good choice as APS-only camera with interchangeable lenses. I have not much experience with Fuji lenses but the 35/2 i got with the X-E2 is very good indeed.

You’re missing a subtlety. It’s not that CL owners want to sell their cameras, it’s that they wanted to know there was a next generation CL2 so they could get maximum use out of their TL lenses. 
 

Going by the longevity of M and R lenses it’s quite likely the TL lenses will outlive their respective cameras - T/TL/TL2/CL which will leave perfectly serviceable lenses unusable. And realistically if you didn’t pick the SL in the first place, probably because of bloat, then you are unlikely to accept TL lenses that produce lower quality images due to the crop, and accept unnecessary weight.

[Kim Dahl]

23 hours ago, Le Chef said:

I bought the CL because it was the perfect combination of form and function. It had a dedicated line of lenses and other suppliers who were stepping in. In addition with an adaptor I could have added M lenses but didn’t. The issue a number of us now face is that we invested in TL lenses so we’re in a cul de sac with nowhere we can go but to either use them up or sell and start over.

Totally agree. That is the problem. Us who have invested in TL lenses. I have that too. But there is no point in staying in the system. I think the best thing now is to get away as soon as possible before everything is lost. Apsc Leica will definitely not come back and  SL2 is NOT an alternative to the CL

[dkCambridgeshire]

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4 minutes ago, tri said:

When Canon changed to the EOS system, FD lenses could not be used on any SLRs at all, due to their shorter back flange distance. 
Today‘s prices for FD lenses  1.4/24mm, 1.2/55 aspherical and 1.2/85 have tripled compared to what they fetched a very few years ago, not to mention when they were discontinued towards the end of the 1980-ies.

... Because the FD lenses are very popular with videographers and cine photographers https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8Il_l3tu6Q

 

[M11 for me]

vor 11 Minuten schrieb dkCambridgeshire:

... Because the FD lenses are very popular with videographers and cine photographers https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8Il_l3tu6Q

 

Could you summarise this video?😇

[dkCambridgeshire]

51 minutes ago, Kim Dahl said:

Totally agree. That is the problem. Us who have invested in TL lenses. I have that too. But there is no point in staying in the system. I think the best thing now is to get away as soon as possible before everything is lost. Apsc Leica will definitely not come back and  SL2 is NOT an alternative to the CL

I use a TL 11-23mm / Panasonic S1R combination and with excellent results ... In its APS-C mode the S1R produces 20.68mp images ... more than sufficient for A3+ prints ... and the S1R can be used (via adapters) with a vast range of both manual focus legacy lenses and Canon EF optics 

dunk 

EDIT:  And the S1R's articulated screen is so very useful eg "over 'heads' " in a crowd imaging 

Edited April 12, 2022 by dkCambridgeshire

[dkCambridgeshire]

5 minutes ago, M11 for me said:

Could you summarise this video?😇

Anyone who quickly flips through the video will see how / why FD lenses are used ... watching the whole video is not necessary 

[Enrique Santa]

2 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said:

The CL will be outdated in the same way as the M2-M4 and the Barnacks are outdated - no AF, no internal exposure meter - and yet they sell. The CL image quality can easily rival 35mm film image quality. The CL will remain capable of producing images that would be more than good enough for most photographers. The only question in my mind is whether it will continue to function, not whether it will be outdated.

I am currently using cameras dating from the 1930s to 2021. They all have their uses.

So you think a 5 year old laptop or cellular are not obsolete?. A digican is like a computer specilized in processing sensor signal and full of electronic components. A mechanical cam or wacht can last as long as you take care of them. A digicam will last as long as an electronic component fail and there are no replacement avaliable. So no the CL will be outdated very soon compared to my Oly OM 1 still working after almost 50 years of use. This is something everybody have in mind, with your exception, and this is why haven't any CL2 in the horizon is a very bad thing. 

[jankap]

1 hour ago, M11 for me said:

well, well, well. I still wear the socks that I bought 30 years ago and I am still happy. At least in my example there was no technical progress in socks since that time. I still have to wash my socks.

I have a different style. I let repair my mower, drive cars for 30.000km and the cars are no SUVs. Cameras are meant to produce pictures, that suffices for me. I have no shares in Sony, Canon, Leica, etc., so no interest to drive the turnovers by buying more pixels. For me even the development goes in the trivial direction, it could be, that smart phones have the future. Have you looked at really new developments, numerous times I mentioned the Lytro Illum for instance. 

[LocalHero1953]

14 minutes ago, Enrique Santa said:

So you think a 5 year old laptop or cellular are not obsolete?. A digican is like a computer specilized in processing sensor signal and full of electronic components. A mechanical cam or wacht can last as long as you take care of them. A digicam will last as long as an electronic component fail and there are no replacement avaliable. So no the CL will be outdated very soon compared to my Oly OM 1 still working after almost 50 years of use. This is something everybody have in mind, with your exception, and this is why haven't any CL2 in the horizon is a very bad thing. 

You need to read my post again. I wrote "The only question in my mind is whether it will continue to function".

[loretdem]

I'm late to this thread and understand that this is mostly about the apparent demise of Leica's APS-C product line. But I wanted to ask you all interested in this topic: Is there any kit out there currently available that can compete with a Leica CL / 18-50 f2.8 Sigma combo? Specifically in terms of image quality, size/weight, convenience, UI, utility with Leica M, R, and ff L lenses, speed, stealth and general all-around versatility? The newish Sigma's constant 2.8 and IQ has turned my CL into an essential partner to my Leica M10, especially when working on demanding commission work, where stealth, speed and portability are essential to me.

My feeling is that there is no upgrade (or side grade) path that compares favorably to the above combo (that I use daily) and that any alternative will be a notable compromise of some of the characteristics I listed above. Please enlighten me. I am open to consider alternatives. 

Unless there is something better out there (or coming soon), my current strategy is to continue using my CL kit until it gives up the ghost, and then move on at that point. Which in all likelihood may be years away, or never. Whichever comes first.

[Mr.Prime]

Indeed, you better keep using your set up in order to be happy.

[Enrique Santa]

20 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

You need to read my post again. I wrote "The only question in my mind is whether it will continue to function".

"The CL will be outdated in the same way as the M2-M4 and the Barnacks are outdated "

[Enrique Santa]

Dear fellow forum members happy easter, even for leica insiders¡¡

[LocalHero1953]

56 minutes ago, Enrique Santa said:

"The CL will be outdated in the same way as the M2-M4 and the Barnacks are outdated "

Agreed. Still usable for its original function, taking images that will be indistinguishable from those taken by most photographers with later cameras. 

[LACANYONHIKER]

This discussion cracks me up.  This notion of an "outdated camera" is crazy.  My God, are we photographers or what?  Photography is about your eye, not your gear. My CL may just outlive my eyesight.   I just took my old Canon AE-1 that I've had since 1979 for a film shooting day (LOL actually I was shocked it still worked).  It took great photos.  I will use my CL and TL lenses and pass them down to a young photographer someday.  I'm not worried about being outdated.  

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[Rusty]

6 hours ago, M11 for me said:

May I ask a question as I do not fully follow the discussion that is going on here:

- The Lenses for the CL are designed, engineered, calculated, manufactured for APS-C

- There is no other manufacturer producing APS-C cameras for these lenses. Panasonic L-mount cameras are FF

- As technology developes further within a few years the CL will be a completely outdated camera

Seen like that I can not understand how the lenses should have a second hand market when there are no cameras for them.

what do I oversee?

But there will be cameras for them. A bunch of still functioning 2nd hand Leica TL's and CL's. Go and check Nikon 1 forums and ebay. You can still buy perfectly good older Nikon 1 cameras that still function and enable you to use your Nikon 1 lenses. And those who chose to change to get newer sensor or camera technology sell their lenses and the people who bought 2nd hand cameras buy even more 2nd hand lenses.

Eventually they all get too old or stop working but until then there is always someone who wants one. You can still buy Leica X1's dating from 2008 or 9. Thats 13 years ago, they still work fine and still fetch hundreds of dollars. yes its old tech but its a leica and there are people out there who have always wanted to own a leica and will buy one.